Housing Lotto - New Plot Acquisition Method

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03-30-2021, 04:02 AM
LaylaTsarra

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

EDIT: Actually, I think I know exactly why people are against a lotto system: They're hoping that they'll be one of the lucky 1,260 people to be able to log in early enough, beat the queue, and buy an Ishgard house without competition. News flash: If there's this much competition over the one or two plots that come up to stand around for entire days hoping to get it - you ain't going to be one of the tens of thousands of people who miraculously get in on patch day and beat the queues.

Humm I guess that large I own in Shirogane on Siren I got on patch day for 4.1 is a figment of my imagination then. I also must be imagining the Shirogane seaside I have on Gilgamesh on Aether or the poolside in Goblet I have on Balmung on Crystal. First house on Balmung I might add I got by clicking a placard. Let me continue to imagine the small FC I own on Spriggan with a private right next to it or the small Mist waterfront I got for a friends FC on Chocobo. Guess what I earned those for myself and I didn't need a lottery to do it.

People like you who prefer to do nothing but put your name in a hat and simply complain it's impossible to get a house simply don't know how to play/game the system. Get GUD as some would say and stop trying to spoil it for everyone.

And please let us know when you win your state lottery.
03-30-2021, 04:06 AM
Vahlnir

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

"Lottery isn't the answer" isn't an actual argument as to why it's better/worse

It has been explained many, many times on these forums. It's not our fault that you don't want to understand it. Maybe use that noggin of yours before posting in favor of an idea that can be proven to be a bad one pretty easily. Instead of looking at this with a short sighted view, try to see the big picture. The writing's on the wall in big, bolded letters. Some just prefer not to see it though.
03-30-2021, 08:13 AM
Jojoya

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

Weeks or months? Why would a lottery system need to go on that long? The length of time doesn't need to be exorbitant - 36 hours seems to be adequate enough for people willing to sit there and click on a placard, apparently. Adequate enough that people think that's a better system than click interface, buy ticket, and then go do anything else. And it'd give people that aren't around when the servers open a chance to get a house on patch day, in regard to Ishgard housing. It would reduce the necessity for people to have to be around and beat the massive queue times and likely take stress off the servers in doing so. I think the amount of people pissed off by that would be significantly less than the amount who never even had a chance because they had to work or were asleep when the servers came back up.

EDIT: Actually, I think I know exactly why people are against a lotto system: They're hoping that they'll be one of the lucky 1,260 people to be able to log in early enough, beat the queue, and buy an Ishgard house without competition. News flash: If there's this much competition over the one or two plots that come up to stand around for entire days hoping to get it - you ain't going to be one of the tens of thousands of people who miraculously get in on patch day and beat the queues.

Because it's not unusual for lotteries to go on that long before someone is lucky enough to have the random number picked?

You do know what a lottery is don't you? You pay a fee to pick or get a random assigned number. The system at a designated time randomly picks the winning number. If no one matches the number, the prize sits there until the next drawing. If no one matches the number in the next drawing, the prize continues to sit there. It goes on for drawing after drawing until someone matches the randomly picked number.

Jumbo Cactpot is a lottery. If you want to know how long things can go without a winner, go talk to the Cactpot Attendant. They list the weeks with winners.

People keep asking for a lottery. Trust me, they will hate it just as much as they hate the purchase timer if one is ever implemented.
03-31-2021, 04:09 AM
Divinemights

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

That will literally never happen with the amount of players this game has and the amount of houses required to make it happen.

To others:
I keep seeing people saying "Lottery will just increase bots" and "lottery will just trade problems" but the brass tacks is that -any system that is more healthy for the player is better than what we currently have-. You can tell me that 99 bots put in lotto tickets for a plot and if I even have a 1/100 chance of getting it, that is still better than sitting for hours at a placard and not getting it anyway. Like, I really don't know what's going on in people's lives that they think that spending -literal days- of their lives clicking a placard is better than doing anything else, but saying that a lottery is worse than that just... Boggles my mind. I would rather play my state's lottery than keep my hand on a car in the hopes that I'm conveniently the one stubborn enough (and lucky enough) to get it.

You seems to not aware what lottery is and how it is functioning.
Please tell me how many times you have won the grand prize of Jumbo Catpot in the Golden Saucer.
I have not win it even once after more than 6 years.
Good luck to the people who thinks Lottery is their salvation.
04-06-2021, 08:29 PM
geminipestdeath

Too many responses to bother quoting but it really only needs one reply to answer all of them since they're saying the same thing: "Lottery bad - get gud - click placard all day".

And the assumption that I -haven't- put the effort into clicking on a placard for hours at a time is just... So incredibly condescending lol. Like the 15+ times now that I have attempted it and just came to the conclusion that the only way to win is not to play was not borne out of experience but because of want to uhhh "put my name in a hat and simply complain". I'd say it's shocking but it parallels real world non-sense, to be frank.

But again - it doesn't address the core issue that the current system has and just obfuscates it with some weird appeal to genetics; that the current system is better than a lottery because the imaginings of why a lottery is bad or would be worse is somehow short-sighted because of the outcome, not the goal. Would it be more difficult to get a house? Probably. Would it be more prone to gaming by bots? Maybe. Would it mean that players spend less time getting repetitive strain injury, sacrificing sleep/food/etc to not get a house anyway? Unequivocally yes. The responses in this thread saying that a lottery is bad is not an argument because it's too focused on the outcome and not the overall health benefits to the players, and the people advocating against it are doing so likely from an unfair position of already owning a house. And the vitriol associated with its rampant defense is just... Again, I'm not even shocked, honestly. Mean-spirited seems to be the default state of MMO players.

I understand the defiance toward a system that is seen as "less fair" than clicking on a placard repeatedly, or putting it up to luck to be able to log in when the servers come up on patch day when new houses are introduced. What I don't understand is the defiance toward any system that is healthier for the players and their time. Like, that's just not something you're going to win me over on no matter how condescending or belittling you wanna be with the whole "you're too stupid to understand" and "you're not willing to put in the effort" responses here. Let me absolutely clear: It has nothing to do with a successful outcome. It has everything to do with respecting the players' time.

I won't let you know when I win the lottery (Jumbo Cactpot or otherwise) - but I'll definitely let you know when I feel exhausted or treated unfairly from playing it. Maybe you guys can "use that noggin of yours before posting in favor of an idea" that aims to solve that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

EDIT: Like, seriously though. This house was sold while I was typing this post out and there were probably a dozen people there clicking away at the placard. In addition, three more who either went AFK and will come back to disappointment and/or felt the need to use third-party absentee macros in an attempt to get it. Please explain how this is at all healthy behavior and why it should persist. I genuinely want to know.
04-06-2021, 08:51 PM
Saefinn

Whilst I can see problems with the idea, it is still more preferable to the current system, which in effect is like a lottery because your success is down to chance, just if you want to increase your chances of success you camp it.

And then get beaten by a bot.

A lottery would avoid any incentive boost your chances with clicking the placard more frequently and would give no advantage to bots.

I still think a better system is needed, but I can see why this gets suggested so often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinemights

To put it simply, when is their last time won the Grand Prize when bought a lotto?
That is right, zero.
It can be anyone but you, that is what lottery is.

I mean, it's a false equivalency. In a lotto if nobody gets the numbers, nobody gets the prize and the chances of getting the numbers is ridiculously slim.

The lottery suggestion would mean somebody would win, guaranteed. Your chances are split based on how many go for the same plot. The probability is wholly different to playing lotto.
04-06-2021, 09:00 PM
ForteNightshade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojoya

Because it's not unusual for lotteries to go on that long before someone is lucky enough to have the random number picked?

You do know what a lottery is don't you? You pay a fee to pick or get a random assigned number. The system at a designated time randomly picks the winning number. If no one matches the number, the prize sits there until the next drawing. If no one matches the number in the next drawing, the prize continues to sit there. It goes on for drawing after drawing until someone matches the randomly picked number.

Jumbo Cactpot is a lottery. If you want to know how long things can go without a winner, go talk to the Cactpot Attendant. They list the weeks with winners.

People keep asking for a lottery. Trust me, they will hate it just as much as they hate the purchase timer if one is ever implemented.

To be fair, Jumbo Cactpot isn't a good comparison because very few people care about MGP. It taking a while to determine a winner also doesn't mean they can't implemented a faster method.

If a lottery system were implemented. You simply make it at 36-72 hour window where people can purpose a ticket and the moment that timer is reached, it determines a winner. Said person than has 24 hours to build something on the plot in order to "claim" it. Should they fail to do so, it essentially auto-demos and the process starts over. Will there be more competition this way? Absolutely. But it's certainly a better alternative to standing around waiting an unknown amount of hours hoping your click beats someone else's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

EDIT: Actually, I think I know exactly why people are against a lotto system: They're hoping that they'll be one of the lucky 1,260 people to be able to log in early enough, beat the queue, and buy an Ishgard house without competition. News flash: If there's this much competition over the one or two plots that come up to stand around for entire days hoping to get it - you ain't going to be one of the tens of thousands of people who miraculously get in on patch day and beat the queues.

A lotto system shouldn't be for new houses, only those previously owned. The whole idea is to avoid a lengthy timer, which Ishgard will not have.
04-06-2021, 09:04 PM
geminipestdeath

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

A lotto system shouldn't be for new houses, only those previously owned. The whole idea is to avoid a lengthy timer, which Ishgard will not have.

That's reasonable. I concur.
04-07-2021, 02:14 AM
Themarvin

The lotto system goes by hope and what more, you would very quick see people coming here again as 100s including RMT bots take part in the lottery, knowing their is a lot of gil to be earned for sale, and also put those in the position of deciding the price once the next 1 person FC is sold to someone for 10 to 20x the value of the plot.

I assume the lottery is a way to try and get rid of player bots... and sitting somewhere having even less chance for getting a house as you don't need to camp anymore.

If you want to flush it out.. allow 3-4 clicks per day per plot only, it would first of all flush out 99.99% of the bots and it would also give you some time to actually play the game, instead of having to click a placecard all day long.
04-07-2021, 02:41 AM
Jojoya

Quote:

Originally Posted by geminipestdeath

Too many responses to bother quoting but it really only needs one reply to answer all of them since they're saying the same thing: "Lottery bad - get gud - click placard all day".

That's not what we're saying at all if you would actually read our replies.

We don't think the current system is good. We also don't think a lottery will make it better because lotteries come with their own flaws. Change for the sake of change without improvement is a waste of time that could have been spent on working toward finding actual improvements.

Your lottery isn't going to fix only one house being available compared to the dozen people who want it. Wouldn't you rather see SE fix the supply problem over wasting time designing and programming a lottery that's still going to leave you disappointed because you still can't win a house?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

To be fair, Jumbo Cactpot isn't a good comparison because very few people care about MGP. It taking a while to determine a winner also doesn't mean they can't implemented a faster method.

If a lottery system were implemented. You simply make it at 36-72 hour window where people can purpose a ticket and the moment that timer is reached, it determines a winner. Said person than has 24 hours to build something on the plot in order to "claim" it. Should they fail to do so, it essentially auto-demos and the process starts over. Will there be more competition this way? Absolutely. But it's certainly a better alternative to standing around waiting an unknown amount of hours hoping your click beats someone else's.

A lotto system shouldn't be for new houses, only those previously owned. The whole idea is to avoid a lengthy timer, which Ishgard will not have.

Jumbo Cactpot is the perfect comparison because it is literally a lottery.

Now take Jumbo Cactpot and change the prize to a house instead of the million+ MGP. You're trying to get a house. You buy tickets for Jumbo Cactpot. You don't win the house. Not only did you not win the house, but 24 hours later it becomes apparent no one won the house. It continues to sit empty until the next drawing period. You buy a new set of tickets, the next drawing period comes and you still don't win. No one else wins. The house continues to sit empty. Everyone continues to wait for yet another drawing.

Lotteries do not guarantee winners. That's the nature of lotteries. There have been 14 Jumbo Cactpot drawings so far this year. Coeurl had winners in only 5 of those drawings. We had a 5 month gap between winners over Spring and Summer last year. We also had a few drawings where there were multiple winners. What about when that happens? A house can only have one owner.

The game would also have to do this for every house that became available. What happens when there are multiple houses available at the same time? Can the game keep separate track of every drawing so players can enter multiple drawings or will you only be able to enter one? If the latter, what if you already have tickets but would rather get a different house that just became available? Would you be able to withdraw from the other drawing so you could enter the drawing for the new house?

What about relocation? SE is not going to remove relocation at this point. It solved a few of the previous problems housing was experiencing. What if someone relocates to the plot after tickets started getting sold?

Trust me. Players will not want a lottery determining who wins a house because it creates an entirely new set of problems just as adding the timer did when added as an obstacle to house flipping. Probably the best bandaid idea I've seen listed in the forums is a waiting list but even that would have its problems and stipulations that players would not like.

But quite honestly, I'm tired of bandaids for the problem and I'm sure others feel the same way. It's time to stop wasting time on bandaids and to start getting solutions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themarvin

I assume the lottery is a way to try and get rid of player bots... and sitting somewhere having even less chance for getting a house as you don't need to camp anymore.

A lottery won't get rid of those who use bots. It just removes the bot as a potential advantage (players have managed to buy plots despite bots being present). Those players would still end up buying their tickets along with several hundred other players who preferred playing the rest of the game over camping the placard but are happy to take a minute of time to buy a ticket.

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