Galdjent Viis and mystel- what's behind those names on the first?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The main thing I was trying to deny is that we have enough evidence to say that dragons can move bodily between shards (outside of extreme cases, such as the Allagan portal to the Void). The idea that ideas could be transmitted indirectly from the Source to the First via Voidsent summoning is one I can get on board with. We could have gotten the Drahn name in that way.

I would, however, not go so far as to say that Midgardsormr dragons being bodily on other shards is "highly probable". The Crystal Tower is touted as such a miracle even Emet-Selch was taken off-guard, and there's no evidence that any civilization on the First achieved nearly the heights that the Allagans did. "Minutely possible" is a better tag, I think.

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I mean, we don't get to see most of the Ronkan Civilization, just its center. It may not be quite as advanced as the Allagans were, but the stone buildings and automatons remind me of the architecture used in Labyrinth of the Ancients.

We're told somewhat that it was a massive empire, but we're not told exactly how far it spanned beyond Norvrandt. I wouldn't put it past an empire to be nearly worldwide, as the Allagans had been.

We're kinda up schitt's creek without a paddle, because as much as the First has to offer us in knowledge and comparisons, so much of it was wiped away before Minfilia saved the day.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

This quote is the answer to the above argument.

But lets not forget that the World of Darkness dungeon was created with bosses from Greek mythology. So of course it would have a hydra, regardless of the lore reason that would have been filled in later.

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It was actually just created with the bosses, save Echidna, that appear in World of Darkness from FFIII. They upgraded Twinheaded Dragon to Five-Headed Dragon while making a Two Headed Dragon a trash monster (probably because we'd already fought a Hydra in the relic quest available at 50). They are Greek mythos references, but in FFXIV's case, it's more of wanting to reference the source Final Fantasy than anything else.

Edit: That's also the actual reason there are Xande Clones, Kunoichi, Shinobi, and all those other trash monsters as well, hehe. Though I think the Atomos segment is unique.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

It was actually just created with the bosses, save Echidna, that appear in World of Darkness from FFIII. They upgraded Twinheaded Dragon to Five-Headed Dragon while making a Two Headed Dragon a trash monster (probably because we'd already fought a Hydra in the relic quest available at 50). They are Greek mythos references, but in FFXIV's case, it's more of wanting to reference the source Final Fantasy than anything else.

Edit: That's also the actual reason there are Xande Clones, Kunoichi, Shinobi, and all those other trash monsters as well, hehe. Though I think the Atomos segment is unique.

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I highly suggest googling Echidna and Greek mythology and the deep darkness and Greek mythology. Also gods cloning themselves is a common theme in Greek mythology too. Atomos is the Greek word for "not-cuttable"--which is how we got the word atom because of the idea that everything can be broken down into its smallest components (atoms) and that small component cannot be destroyed.

I realize that source material for this raid came straight from Final Fantasy III but realize that Final Fantasy III was using Greek mythology source material. A reference of a reference still finds a common base, which is the true source material.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I highly suggest googling Echidna and Greek mythology and the deep darkness and Greek mythology. Also gods cloning themselves is a common theme in Greek mythology too. Atomos is the Greek word for "not-cuttable"--which is how we got the word atom because of the idea that everything can be broken down into its smallest components (atoms) and that small component cannot be destroyed.

I realize that source material for this raid came straight from Final Fantasy III but realize that Final Fantasy III was using Greek mythology source material. A reference of a reference still finds a common base, which is the true source material.

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I am versed in Greek Mythology. I said, "Save Echidna" because she doesn't appear in WoD in FFXIV, but in the Void Ark instead. Almost all Final Fantasies have pulled from mythologies from all over the world. It's a lot easier than inventing new monsters off the cuff. The actual relation of FFIII's plot to Greek Myths is pretty much only in monster references.

Also I wouldn't say that Greek gods "cloning" themselves was a common occurrence in the myths. Not sure where you're getting that from.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Also I wouldn't say that Greek gods "cloning" themselves was a common occurrence in the myths. Not sure where you're getting that from.

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Idk what you would define as "cloning", but when a god makes an exact copy of another god, I call it cloning. Lets not mince definitions.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Idk what you would define as "cloning", but when a god makes an exact copy of another god, I call it cloning. Lets not mince definitions.

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I don't think he's mincing words. Whether you call them clones or copies, how often do the Greek gods make copies of themselves or any other god? Not often enough to be called "common" I don't think.

I'm hard-pressed to think of even one myth where a Greek god copies him/herself or anyone else. Could they do it? Probably; it wouldn't surprise me if it did happen once or twice in stories I'm less familiar with. But commonly?

I'm not that familiar with Greek myths but "gods making copies of themselves" isn't sounding like a common concept from what I know.

The only mythology that I even vaguely remember with gods "making copies of themselves" is Indian. And even then they're human avatars of the gods so they can mingle among humanity. The only thing explicitly putting Greek gods in that aspect... is the Percy Jackson series... where it's said the gods can be in separate places at once, but that's a stock god power (after all, the Judeo-Christian one is "omnipresent", meaning he's everywhere at once).

Now, in that series it has SOME precedent: after all, Zeus is tricked into assuming his "godly form" in front of Dyonisius' mother, killing her in the process; but that's also closer to "god uses a human disguise to mingle" than anything close to cloning.

Nephele is an exact copy of Hera that was fashioned by Zues. She becomes the goddess of duality. Furthermore, she suffers from a complex where she can't be the original.

Or all the times Zues transforms himself into someone else just to sleep with their wives.

Again, making an exact copy of another being is cloning. Lets not mince the definition.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Nephele is an exact copy of Hera that was fashioned by Zues. She becomes the goddess of duality. Furthermore, she suffers from a complex where she can't be the original.

Or all the times Zues transforms himself into someone else just to sleep with their wives.

Again, making an exact copy of another being is cloning. Lets not mince the definition.

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That first story sounds like it could be defined as making a clone, since it is creating a new entity that is a copy of an existing one, but "Zeus cloning Hera" isn't exactly "gods cloning themselves" as you first put it.

On the other hand, transforming to look like a copy of someone else isn't cloning at all. It's a temporary disguise, not a new entity.