Why do people bother dodging aoe during trash pulls?

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Originally Posted by MPK

We're strictly talking about trash pulls in dungeons here. Besides, in real raids failing to dodge an aoe results in a damage down which is bad for your numbers.

Getting hit as a dps in any of our current expert dungeons will not negatively impact anyone at all. The healers don't even need to heal you because you would have your HP completely regenerated once you get to the next set of trash.

Besides, if the healer were any good they wouldn't be that busy with the tank, they would be spamming their aoe skills too and be using their OGCDs only to heal the tank (this includes raid wide ogcd heals such as assize, star, whispering dawn, and that fey blessing).

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It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

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Yes. Playing optimally is part of developing good habits. Knowing limits on what your class can do is very important. Playing safe and doing the bare minimum is not called developing good habits. The answer to "which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs?" is that I would take the DPS that knows how much damage the aoe would do and survive while doing optimal dps.

Do note that in real content taking an aoe will usually result in a damage down, but that's not the point. The point is knowing what you can get away with in a fight.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Yeah for the Hero's Gauntlet I'll absolutely just stand in the AoEs on trash pulls. They're absolutely pathetic damage-wise and I can just bloodbath/second wind.

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I thought the same thing in Hero's Gauntlet when using TCJ on my NIN. Second wind and Bloodbath would have quickly got me back up the full.... If I didn't die. Unfortunately, if you want to use TCJ that ends with Doton, you have the be in the middle of the pack. In my defense, I did not intend to eat the AoEs. I misjudged the timing and I got hit by x3 trash AoE while moving out of them after placing Doton.

I will also point out that if you have access to Bloodbath and Second Wind, that means you are playing a melee job. You literally have it the easiest when it comes to maximizing damage and uptime during dungeons while avoiding bad.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Yes. Playing optimally is part of developing good habits. Knowing limits on what your class can do is very important. Playing safe and doing the bare minimum is not called developing good habits. The answer to "which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs?" is that I would take the DPS that knows how much damage the aoe would do and survive while doing optimal dps.

Do note that in real content taking an aoe will usually result in a damage down, but that's not the point. The point is knowing what you can get away with in a fight.

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There is no way for you know that the DPS player who stands in bad knows what their limits are. They may simply not care to move out of AoEs and expect to get topped off from the healers. And where did, "the bare minimum" argument come from? It isn't about playing safe; it's about playing smart.

Again, there are exceptions. A player knowing which AoEs are acceptable to stand in to maintain uptime is an exception, not the rule. Players for the most part should be actively avoiding bad, and practice doing so while maintaining their rotations. Get good at doing it dungeons, so that way you're not holding your group back when yo DO go into harder content.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

There is no way for you know that the DPS player who stands in bad knows what their limits are. They may simply not care to move out of AoEs and expect to get topped off from the healers. And where did, "the bare minimum" argument come from? It isn't about playing safe; it's about playing smart.

Again, there are exceptions. A player knowing which AoEs are acceptable to stand in to maintain uptime is an exception, not the rule. Players for the most part should be actively avoiding bad, and practice doing so while maintaining their rotations. Get good at doing it dungeons, so that way you're not holding your group back when yo DO go into harder content.

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Sounds like to me that new players learning the game is the exception not regular players who already hit max level

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Originally Posted by MPK

Sounds like to me that new players learning the game is the exception not regular players who already hit max level

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Exceptions can always be made for new players who are learning. The same exceptions do not apply to max level players in an expert dungeon who should not only know how to play their jobs, but also avoid the telegraphs that have been taught to them that they are bad as early as day 1. You basically just pointed this out yourself.

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Originally Posted by MPK

They do no damage. Just stand still and spam your aoe combos

Worst case scenario healer can adjust

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Well as a healer main, if you stand in all the AoEs all the time, I’m not healing your dumb butt unless you’re the tank. I don’t “adjust” for stupidity. And I Holy and dps just fine while multitasking.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I thought the same thing in Hero's Gauntlet when using TCJ on my NIN. Second wind and Bloodbath would have quickly got me back up the full.... If I didn't die. Unfortunately, if you want to use TCJ that ends with Doton, you have the be in the middle of the pack. In my defense, I did not intend to eat the AoEs. I misjudged the timing and I got hit by x3 trash AoE while moving out of them after placing Doton.

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Well I dunno which trash AoEs those were because I just tested things with trusts and at ilvl 460 on my SAM the max damage I saw from an AoE was 27k. At that ilevel I had 95k HP so even assuming the worst conditions in terms of level I don't see how they could've done enough damage from 3 AoEs unless you were already wounded. Synced to ilvl 500 you could even survive 4. Going back in at an ilvl 460 BLM their attacks did only a small amount more.

Not that I'd suggest eating 3 AoEs. Max I've ever been fine with is 2 and it's pretty difficult to get 3 stacked AoEs even pulling everything in that dungeon. But the numbers don't line up.

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Originally Posted by MPK

They do no damage. Just stand still and spam your aoe combos

Worst case scenario healer can adjust

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Because I'm not lazy and would prefer the healer to focus more on DPSing over healing my selfish posterior. Like the melee don't have positionals in their AoE rotation (aiming aside), so it doesn't matter if I wiggle around to avoid AoE's.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Because I'm not lazy and would prefer the healer to focus more on DPSing over healing my selfish posterior. Like the melee don't have positionals in their AoE rotation (aiming aside), so it doesn't matter if I wiggle around to avoid AoE's.

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They don't need to heal you because unless you're actively trying to get yourself killed or you're not using your aoe combos in min ilevel, dying to trash is very very difficult to do.