Female Hrothgar and Male Viera

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

It's not, really.

Also always strange seeing people whine about "hats and hair first" when this topic comes up. What goes into adding a new female/ male model and what's keeping the Hrothgar and Viera in game from getting hats and hair are 2 completely different beast to solve. I'd take the current limits of the Viera any day of the week if it got me Female Hrothgar personally so I don't see the point in people bringing it up every time others talk about wanting the other genders.

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Why not? In topics about the hair and headgear people also come in talking about how they'd rather have the other genders, or completely dismissing it by calling people impatient or ungrateful. I see two comments saying they'd rather see hair and headgear first, hardly whining.

Also wouldn't female Hrothgar be more likely to share the male Hrothgar limitations rather than Viera's? I'm sure male Hrothgar would be a lot happier if they had Viera limitations too.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Why not? In topics about the hair and headgear people also come in talking about how they'd rather have the other genders, or completely dismissing it by calling people impatient or ungrateful. I see two comments saying they'd rather see hair and headgear first, hardly whining.

Also wouldn't female Hrothgar be more likely to share the male Hrothgar limitations rather than Viera's? I'm sure male Hrothgar would be a lot happier if they had Viera limitations too.

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People talk down those constantly asking about hats-n-hair cause we HAVE gotten confirmation a number of times that those things are coming "at some point/ we're working on it/ just wait a bit longer please". Those who want Female Hrothgar and Male Viera haven't gotten anything, not a word from the devs about that coming down the line or even a crumb of hope. This type of non-sense comes up all the time, someone makes a thread about something and someone takes it as a chance to whine about this same issue in a drive by post that's actually been addressed by the devs in a q-n-a or stream or interview that they would know if they looked into the matter through googling.

As for Female Hrothgar, I don't assume anything. The in game art depiction of them just leaves them bald and as far as I'm concerned the backlash to the current state of these limited races may lead to any number of different approaches to these genders if they ever do them. I could easily see a case for Viera males having their ears use the Miqote head system so they can be treated like a normal race for example. I could see the problems of Hrothgar and Viera going the way of Highlander Eyebrows for their gender counter parts.

Either way, I personally wouldn't care if I was stuck with 1 hair style if I liked it and liked my race/ gender combo.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

People talk down those constantly asking about hats-n-hair cause we HAVE gotten confirmation a number of times that those things are coming "at some point/ we're working on it/ just wait a bit longer please". Those who want Female Hrothgar and Male Viera haven't gotten anything, not a word from the devs about that coming down the line or even a crumb of hope. This type of non-sense comes up all the time, someone makes a thread about something and someone takes it as a chance to whine about this same issue in a drive by post that's actually been addressed by the devs in a q-n-a or stream or interview that they would know if they looked into the matter through googling.

As for Female Hrothgar, I don't assume anything. The in game art depiction of them just leaves them bald and as far as I'm concerned the backlash to the current state of these limited races may lead to any number of different approaches to these genders if they ever do them. I could easily see a case for Viera males having their ears use the Miqote head system so they can be treated like a normal race for example. I could see the problems of Hrothgar and Viera going the way of Highlander Eyebrows for their gender counter parts.

Either way, I personally wouldn't care if I was stuck with 1 hair style if I liked it and liked my race/ gender combo.

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If they had actually said "we're still working on it, just wait a bit longer please" any time in the last 8/9 months there'd be a lot less people butting into these threads or starting new ones about it. For all we know they consider what they're doing right now 'continuing to work towards alleviating these issues'.

Ideally we'd all be able to get on board with female Hrothgar and male Viera without having to worry about what that means for female Viera and male Hrothgar development, but when the messaging from SE more often than not is " Well, we wanted to do both but we could only do one" it's not entirely unrealistic to think that if they're working on male Viera and female Hrothgar that cuts into time spent working on their counterparts. Unless, like you said, they actually plan to launch both of them bald and/or hat-less, which seems unlikely to me.

Hopefully they're working on something big for character creation next expansion and we can all be happy, but if they do decide to just add f-Hrothgar/m-Viera I'll be happy for those that want them and hope they will work towards making them all feel more complete.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

If they had actually said "we're still working on it, just wait a bit longer please" any time in the last 8/9 months there'd be a lot less people butting into these threads or starting new ones about it. For all we know they consider what they're doing right now 'continuing to work towards alleviating these issues'.

Ideally we'd all be able to get on board with female Hrothgar and male Viera without having to worry about what that means for female Viera and male Hrothgar development, but when the messaging from SE more often than not is " Well, we wanted to do both but we could only do one" it's not entirely unrealistic to think that if they're working on male Viera and female Hrothgar that cuts into time spent working on their counterparts. Unless, like you said, they actually plan to launch both of them bald and/or hat-less, which seems unlikely to me.

Hopefully they're working on something big for character creation next expansion and we can all be happy, but if they do decide to just add f-Hrothgar/m-Viera I'll be happy for those that want them and hope they will work towards making them all feel more complete.

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LMAO, no, the devs giving more blurbs saying the same thing every few months wouldn't stop people from whining in drive by post. People whined about it even when that news was new news. Why? Cause people don't bother looking up new news or old news and they just know it's not in the game RN.

And no, I wasn't saying that Viera males and Hrothgar females could be bald full stop. I was saying that the only depiction we have of a female Hrothgar was bald ... meaning I wouldn't assume they have "manes" like males yet. "Hrothgar have manes like lions" seems to be the reasoning for them not having normal hair, so that they can look more beastly and have these big swatches of single color fur on their head that's attached to the CC and unchangeable. If the females don't have manes (much like female lions wouldn't) then that could mean they have reg hair or even just wear wigs in the lore cause they like how hair looks on other races. That art can't tell us much for certain as there's no telling what details are not there but at the very least they didn't give them a mini-Vegeta doo to look like a random "mane".

The main point was that I could see them using the Miqote head system for Male Viera and Hrothgar female as a response to feedback on these limited races. That would mean Male Viera would have ears that come out the side of their head and weren't customizable (The placement and customization of ears are what keeps Viera from using the Miqote head system for gear and hair). So they wouldn't be hatless or bald, they would just have the head options of Miqote. No one can say they know what either of these 2 look like so if they're free to go that road. Would also mean they don't have to make male Viera hair and female Hrothgar faces after they release them so that's time saved if they go the path that allows them to be treated like other races.

Also wouldn't expect anything big to come from CC unless we get a engine upgrade ... but then again the same goes for the genders in my mind.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

The main point was that I could see them using the Miqote head system for Male Viera and Hrothgar female as a response to feedback on these limited races. That would mean Male Viera would have ears that come out the side of their head and weren't customizable (The placement and customization of ears are what keeps Viera from using the Miqote head system for gear and hair). So they wouldn't be hatless or bald, they would just have the head options of Miqote. No one can say they know what either of these 2 look like so if they're free to go that road. Would also mean they don't have to make male Viera hair and female Hrothgar faces after they release them so that's time saved if they go the path that allows them to be treated like other races.

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In theory, sure they could do that. But I can't see them leaving such a big discrepancy in functionality between the genders, one gender shouldn't be the beta test for the other so they can reverse it and do everything right for them.

What I was saying regarding the 'unless they plan to launch them bald' was that they'd still have to design at least a few race specific hair options for the two, every race/gender has them so far so I'd be very surprised if they just got recycled hair from other races and nothing unique to themselves.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Also wouldn't expect anything big to come from CC unless we get a engine upgrade ... but then again the same goes for the genders in my mind.

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Oh I'm not really expecting anything like that, if anything they'll ride this out with all the limitations until the wheels fall off, but it's nice to dream.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I don't think you really know what petite means.

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-Slow blinks- Okay, so, for people like you who have to get hung up over semantics and need to be patronising to feel like they're the bigger and better person, let me stoop down to your level and change the word from "petite" to "lithe." If I talk to you in your own tone, you'll get it, right? Does that help you out or are you still stuck on the over all concept of mine and OP's messages? I hope it's not too difficult of a concept to grasp.

;)
(If you wanna be a D, I'll be a D right back. So, why don't you dial it back a little from now on?)

I wanna be Male Viera to satisy my RP needs pls daddy Yoshi P

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Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR

-Slow blinks- Okay, so, for people like you who have to get hung up over semantics and need to be patronising to feel like they're the bigger and better person, let me stoop down to your level and change the word from "petite" to "lithe." If I talk to you in your own tone, you'll get it, right? Does that help you out or are you still stuck on the over all concept of mine and OP's messages? I hope it's not too difficult of a concept to grasp.

;)
(If you wanna be a D, I'll be a D right back. So, why don't you dial it back a little from now on?)

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Calling you on not knowing the definitions of the words you're using (whether you meant petite or lithe) is not patronizing (which also doesn't really apply here, because being condescending would mean I care how you feel about it).

Midlanders, Au Ra, and Miqo'te qualify as petite. (Lalafells are a maybe, they're kinda too inhuman to me, but that's personal perspective.) Elezen and Viera are more lithe (which, as linked above, means something different, so just swapping your word choice surprisingly means something different. Shocking, innit?). Highlanders and Roegadyn are athletic.

If you'd like to continue, by all means, but do us both a favor and drop the attempts at being insulting. We're both just voices shouting over the internet, so it's not really accomplishing anything. Nobody is impressed by soapboxing.

Stop making these threads. It's never gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

In theory, sure they could do that. But I can't see them leaving such a big discrepancy in functionality between the genders, one gender shouldn't be the beta test for the other so they can reverse it and do everything right for them.

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That's a strange way at looking at it.
There's no way to "learn from mistakes" if you force yourself to repeat them outta fairness to those past burnt and SE has shown to be great at digesting feedback to correct mistakes or mishandling of things later on.

There's no sugar coating it, a number of design decisions for Viera and Hrothgar are bad and anti-consumer. (It actually hurts Viera more than most realize. They make new races to give people ways to express themselves but most Viera are doomed to be copies because they only have a small range of skin colors, a few hair styles and no way to change the shape of their head with hats and helms. All of that just so they can have 4 ear types with customization options on the crown of their head) They were choices made to get the look they wanted with the limits they had to work with, if they decided to pursue a different look for their gender counterparts that's more compatible then so be it ... I don't think most Viera male fans would care that the race/ gender they wanted to play has access to all the hair and head gear well not having the same ears or ear options as females if the end model/ design looked good and at the end of the day the enjoyment of the people playing the thing should stand above all else imo.