What would you guys think about getting more Dynamic, "Combo" abilities?

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Originally Posted by Terin

I don't think it dumbs things down. It just adds a layer of convenience

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That's what leads to "dumbing things down".

Gonna get a "No" vote from me.

For a lot of the abilities in this game there's really no reason for them to be different buttons. That kind of bloat isn't complexity or challenge; it's just inconvenience for the sake of inconvenience.

It's like if they made opening character menu require you to press ctrl+alt+shift+c instead of just c. That's not more intricate, complex gameplay that really separates the men from the boys; it's just making something more inconvenient for no reason.

I'd be fine with it. The current system isn't hard, or challenging as is. It just bloats your hot bars with more buttons than are necessary with a couple of exceptions like monk, where perfect balance lets you hit any combo for full effect so you need all the buttons.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I play on controller and jobs that have one combo I don't play anymore, like Dark Knight. Coming from early HW I already feel like everything got dumbed down WAY to much, if they do it more and every job becomes what you want it to be i'll stop playing..

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What i want is the option.

If you want to have 40 keybinds for 40 abilities, You do you.
I'd like the option to customise certain abilities to reduce the 40 keybinds to 30. Still 40 individual button presses to get through a full rotation, Just recycling keybinds for things that do not need to be separate.
I'll customise my buttons, You leave everything as is. Nothing changes for you. Game gets more comfortable for me to play. Win/Win.

Choice. Not unlike the freedom we have in customising our UI. Unless you'd like to try telling me that customising our UI away from the default also dumbs the game down.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Believe me, I have. I would absolutely hate it. Reducing the buttons sequences down to two would make the jobs feel boring. It essentially means I'll spam 11112222 on say, Dragoon endlessly. If this were an active game with more advanced combos, you could justify a system like that since many characters/classes will have 10+ combos. But with FFXIV, it'd just feel stale. Now if they're going to add a plethora of new abilities to compensate, I could maybe be convinced; like Dragoon getting a third full combo. I sincerely doubt they would as that defeats the entire button bloat "problem."

Which, speaking of, really isn't that big a deal. Controllers have more than enough hotbar real estate if you don't litter them with pointless clutter like emotes, mounts and minions.

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I think that's a good point. I haven't played a Lancer to high level before, so I can't really speak to it that much. I know for DRK, though, I basically have two "main rotations" that I would love to condense down. The difference is, I suspect, is that my gameplay wouldn't feel "stale" because I also have all these more situational abilities to manage.

I kind of feel like these combos would work for any basic bread-and-butter combos. I used to play a Monk, and theirs had a little more nuance, where like every third rotation, you would actually change it slightly (in order to keep a certain DoT up). That, coupled with repositioning your character for each attack, made the gameplay a little bit overwhelming with a controller, but with something like this, I think would strike that perfect balance between "simplicity" and "engaging".

Of course, to each their own! I just feel like maybe this wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe it could even lead to more interesting combos being added.

So the DRK, for example, instead of having a "Single-target combo" and "AoE combo", I might actually have like *three* combos to choose from: one that's a "threat/enmity combo", a second that's a "self-healing combo", and a third "MP-regen combo". Maybe every subsequent hit in a combo increases the effects of the other two combos, so you get more choice? So instead of "just do this combo on repeat", I would be asking myself "do I want to JUST focus on self-healing? or do I need to bump up my threat? oh, I'm low on MP, should I use that as my finisher?".

Quite simply:

For every action that is literally 1-2-3 there is zero logical reason not to condense them down into a single button. None. You can claim complexity all you want but you're still pressing a button 3 times does it matter if it's 1-1-1 or 1-2-3? I submit that it does not.

"But But But Deceptus, there are times when I NEED to break that combo up!"

And lose potency? Why would you ever do that? If you missed out on the next step it could revert back to step 1. Button bloat is a constant fight in this game and a condensed combo button solves a small part of it.

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Originally Posted by tdb

Some classes have multiple finishers for their combos. And then there's monk who has multiple choices for each step.

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Monk has a rear rotation and a flank rotation just like other melee jobs. Just move Snap Punch to flank and Demolish to rear and you can easily line everything up. You'd have a buffing rotation ending in a DoT, and then your main rear rotation.

Condensing the combos to a single button would really be helpful for certain classes... Mostly Monk and Dragoon I'd say.

MNK could easily turn 9 buttons into 3 buttons, and DRG could take 10 into 3. Probably would be best if they were combined at level 50 onwards, since that's when classes will have all base of their combo weaponskills. AoEs and DRG being really the only exceptions to this.
But basically, for the combos in whole
For MNK
Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch
Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish
Arm of the Destroyer -> Four-Point Fury -> Rockbreaker

For DRG
True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust.
True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaos Thrust -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw.
Doom Spike -> Sonic Thrust -> Coerthan Torment.


While most would save only 2 or 3 by condensing combos, for the sake of MNK and DRG it would be really helpful

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Condensing the combos to a single button would really be helpful for certain classes... Mostly Monk and Dragoon I'd say.

MNK could easily turn 9 buttons into 3 buttons, and DRG could take 10 into 3. Probably would be best if they were combined at level 50 onwards, since that's when classes will have all base of their combo weaponskills. AoEs and DRG being really the only exceptions to this.
But basically, for the combos in whole
For MNK
Bootshine -> True Strike -> Snap Punch
Dragon Kick -> Twin Snakes -> Demolish
Arm of the Destroyer -> Four-Point Fury -> Rockbreaker

For DRG
True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Fang and Claw -> Wheeling Thrust.
True Thrust -> Disembowel -> Chaos Thrust -> Wheeling Thrust -> Fang and Claw.
Doom Spike -> Sonic Thrust -> Coerthan Torment.


While most would save only 2 or 3 by condensing combos, for the sake of MNK and DRG it would be really

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It's actually not a bad idea, making it something you have to "unlock". It would make newcomers appreciate those conveniences a lot more, if you had to get used to a fully-manual combo before unlocking a condensed version.

Like I said, I think for me, the main thing is making sure there's still some way of visually seeing where you are in a combo (am I on the first hit? the third?), and organize them with some rhyme and reason. The Samurai also comes to mind, as he has two 3-button combos and one 2-button combo associated with highlighting his "runes" or whatever. The Monk obviously has a "Side" combo and a "Back" combo, and there is definitely some reason to mix them up from time to time. This wouldn't even necessarily hamper that; you would just have to remember "Okay, I'm going to do two Back attacks, but then use my Side finisher to refresh my DoT" or something like that.

Like I said, if nothing else, it would be a godsend for my DRK. If I were able to condense his two main combos into two individual "combo" buttons, I would probably get away with only needing a single Hot-bar, which would be AMAZING on a controller!!!

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Originally Posted by CazzT

That's what leads to "dumbing things down".

Gonna get a "No" vote from me.

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A lot of people want combos consolidating so we can have more abilities, not less.

Turning 6 buttons into 3 creates space for 3 more skills. Skills that might require a modicum of thought.

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Originally Posted by Terin

It's actually not a bad idea, making it something you have to "unlock". It would make newcomers appreciate those conveniences a lot more, if you had to get used to a fully-manual combo before unlocking a condensed version.

Like I said, I think for me, the main thing is making sure there's still some way of visually seeing where you are in a combo (am I on the first hit? the third?), and organize them with some rhyme and reason. The Samurai also comes to mind, as he has two 3-button combos and one 2-button combo associated with highlighting his "runes" or whatever. The Monk obviously has a "Side" combo and a "Back" combo, and there is definitely some reason to mix them up from time to time. This wouldn't even necessarily hamper that; you would just have to remember "Okay, I'm going to do two Back attacks, but then use my Side finisher to refresh my DoT" or something like that.

Like I said, if nothing else, it would be a godsend for my DRK. If I were able to condense his two main combos into two individual "combo" buttons, I would probably get away with only needing a single Hot-bar, which would be AMAZING on a controller!!!

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Its pretty much why i suggested it be made an option for us to customise how we want. Rather than for SE to try and puzzle out the most generically optimal configuration, everyone would be free to make them do what we want them to do for our own comfort. As well as allowing those who enjoy the present system to retain how it all works right now.

Also, in regards to SAM's multiple combos, Freeing up hotbars actually allows spares to be used in more creative ways. As an example, though AST is my main job, i frequently forget which card goes to which role.
So i blew up my only unused hotbar and positioned it next to my job display. Then put the Lord/Lady button in a slot that then sits directly next to my drawn card. It doesn't have a bind, It's presence there is purely visual so that when i draw a card, i can tell at a glance which role it goes to even when i forget what the card does normally.
In the case of SAM, I'd just set a hotbar into a 3x3 config, place each combo in vertical order and then put that box near my job gauge. If i get confused as to where i am in my combo, I can just glance at the box and my position in the combo would be clearly lit up, much as it already does right now as separated binds.