Endgame content is too stressfull and difficult

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

E6S really isn't that bad of a fight, it's definitely tough and a wall for some. But in all honesty it's not that bad if everyone in the group understands their job, the Tank Buster's are up to the tanks to handle and mitigate damage and swap properly.

Also this tier isn't over tuned it's fine as is, it just happens to be PUNISHING for mistakes, as savage should be, yes you can recover from mistakes in savage and it'll come down to the wire. However, Savage is no where near ultimate, you make one mistake in an ultimate and it's basically over. Ultimate also requires 20 to 25 minutes of perfect play which that in of itself is the what makes it so difficult and rewarding. Savage is tough and is a 2 steps up from Ex trials. I'd honestly suggest anyone who wants to do savage content should be breezing through Ex trials, otherwise yes you'll struggle quite a bit in Savage.

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The issue with the fight is that the DPS check is tough as is and you can't actually practice the entire fight like you can with Ramuh when others are not up to speed. Ramuh you still essentially "see" the furious 14 before he gets to double horses and you see chain lightning pretty much mid fight. There is no way to see a lesser conflag before getting to conflag, and there is no way to really practice the exact positioning and movements needed for post conflag before post conflag.

Changes I'd make to the fight is having ifrit himself do a conflag in the first part of the fight with a slightly simplified version of the late fight conflag. Then make positioning a bit more clear on hands of hell by having ifrit center in the room after the first conflag and force people to position the tethers on inter-cardinals to avoid getting a debuff. This would replace the pointless dead weight transformation sequence they kept in there with an interactive one.

If those two changes were there, I'd have no complaints because then everyone regardless of how far they really have made it would have been forced to go through the Conflag.

It basically comes down to "people are not psychic". There's no way to know how to handle something if they have never even seen the effect before, especially if they are dying to other mechanics the entire time, and the part people are dying to in the pugs is really far into the fight.

Sure, players aren't psychic, but failing and retrying is part of the learning process. You don't have to get it right the first time.

And video guides have been out for a good while now, you do have a way of knowing ahead of time. And if you wanna do blind prog, that's okay too, but you gotta accept that wiping will be an inevitable thing

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The issue with the fight is that the DPS check is tough as is and you can't actually practice the entire fight like you can with Ramuh when others are not up to speed. Ramuh you still essentially "see" the furious 14 before he gets to double horses and you see chain lightning pretty much mid fight. There is no way to see a lesser conflag before getting to conflag, and there is no way to really practice the exact positioning and movements needed for post conflag before post conflag.

Changes I'd make to the fight is having ifrit himself do a conflag in the first part of the fight with a slightly simplified version of the late fight conflag. Then make positioning a bit more clear on hands of hell by having ifrit center in the room after the first conflag and force people to position the tethers on inter-cardinals to avoid getting a debuff. This would replace the pointless dead weight transformation sequence they kept in there with an interactive one.

If those two changes were there, I'd have no complaints because then everyone regardless of how far they really have made it would have been forced to go through the Conflag.

It basically comes down to "people are not psychic". There's no way to know how to handle something if they have never even seen the effect before, especially if they are dying to other mechanics the entire time, and the part people are dying to in the pugs is really far into the fight.

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Just wait till you get to shiva knockback mirrors... WOOO BOY, you have no idea.

After all the years I’ve been playing the most difficult part of endgame is finding people who keep up and learn fast. If anything the devs should continue like they have recently with death forgiveness. Even add in it by giving pause moments like they have. No matter how many times players die in a match the boss can still be cleared. I’m glad the devs distanced themselves from those perfect runs nobody can die even once days.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

After all the years I’ve been playing the most difficult part of endgame is finding people who keep up and learn fast. If anything the devs should continue like they have recently with death forgiveness. Even add in it by giving pause moments like they have. No matter how many times players die in a match the boss can still be cleared. I’m glad the devs distanced themselves from those perfect runs nobody can die even once days.

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Not sure what you mean... if anyone dies in E6S right now at the normal item levels it is good game. Unless you are being sarcastic? ;p

I've been seeing the hours spent in this and don't even think this is worth the time to really do, honestly. E1S-E4S was definitely more the speed I'd expect for something that is "challenging but still doable". If a good group can punch through it in about two to three weeks than it's definitely worth the time, but otherwise getting stuck on something like E6S or even E7S for weeks on end? People are spending like 3 hours a day on this stuff in some cases. That sounds like chinese water torture and I've only been stuck on E6S for maybe 3 weeks because of pugs and just general bad luck.

It's one of those things where if everything goes and lines up it's great, and for most it's probably not going to line up. :p

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I've been seeing the hours spent in this and don't even think this is worth the time to really do, honestly. E1S-E4S was definitely more the speed I'd expect for something that is "challenging but still doable". If a good group can punch through it in about two to three weeks than it's definitely worth the time, but otherwise getting stuck on something like E6S or even E7S for weeks on end? People are spending like 3 hours a day on this stuff in some cases. That sounds like chinese water torture and I've only been stuck on E6S for maybe 3 weeks because of pugs and just general bad luck.

It's one of those things where if everything goes and lines up it's great, and for most it's probably not going to line up. :p

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If you dont think its worth the time, they why are you doing it? Savage gets you bragging rights(the mount is included in this but literally no one else cares about your accomplishments), it gets you slightly better gear(which is only useful if theres an ultimate for the current tier - and we all know that right now there isnt), and it gets you a 3 month lead on outfitting your classes. Then 6 months later, a new tier comes out and your slightly better gear is below crafted quality again and you have 4 new fights to try mastering. If that treadmill isnt worth it to you, then get off. Tome gear will be more then enough to get you into the next tier while you work on getting new stuff(hell, if you arent doing the harder content then the current crafted/normal raid tier will get you through the next tier).

And side note, but shouldnt the 2nd tier of a raid series be harder then the first? Then the third tier harder still? Shouldnt we be building toward E12S being one of the hardest fights of the expansion?

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I've been seeing the hours spent in this and don't even think this is worth the time to really do, honestly. E1S-E4S was definitely more the speed I'd expect for something that is "challenging but still doable". If a good group can punch through it in about two to three weeks than it's definitely worth the time, but otherwise getting stuck on something like E6S or even E7S for weeks on end? People are spending like 3 hours a day on this stuff in some cases. That sounds like chinese water torture and I've only been stuck on E6S for maybe 3 weeks because of pugs and just general bad luck.

It's one of those things where if everything goes and lines up it's great, and for most it's probably not going to line up. :p

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I started mid StormBlood back in 4.3, when I first went into savage I was Tanking in O5S, it took a bit I managed to beat it, then tried my hand at O6S, again took time with Pugs but managed to beat it. Got to O7S and HOLY MOOGLE on a stick, I wiped there for weeks and weeks with little to no progress and decided I needed to find a consistent group to even consider tackling savage, this got reinforced when I got to O10S as well which I believe was even harder than O7S. It was from that moment on I thought to myself I wont use PUGs for savage prog/clear again. It's as someone said in a post above, a group that learns quick and is able to keep up is KEY.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

If you dont think its worth the time, they why are you doing it? Savage gets you bragging rights(the mount is included in this but literally no one else cares about your accomplishments), it gets you slightly better gear(which is only useful if theres an ultimate for the current tier - and we all know that right now there isnt), and it gets you a 3 month lead on outfitting your classes. Then 6 months later, a new tier comes out and your slightly better gear is below crafted quality again and you have 4 new fights to try mastering. If that treadmill isnt worth it to you, then get off. Tome gear will be more then enough to get you into the next tier while you work on getting new stuff(hell, if you arent doing the harder content then the current crafted/normal raid tier will get you through the next tier).

And side note, but shouldnt the 2nd tier of a raid series be harder then the first? Then the third tier harder still? Shouldnt we be building toward E12S being one of the hardest fights of the expansion?

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Completely 100% agree. Each tier should be harder than the next. That to me is what makes it fun.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Not sure what you mean... if anyone dies in E6S right now at the normal item levels it is good game. Unless you are being sarcastic? ;p

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Uh, no? While not as laughably forgiving as Ramuh, E6S' enrage easily allows several deaths provided people aren't completely clueless on how to play their jobs. What throws people off in PuGs is how much they bounce around, especially for melee/tanks who try to stay on the boss and eat stuff they shouldn't. I will say, I don't find E6S practically well designed mostly due to said melee downtime but also a few other mechanics. It isn't hard though. At least imo.