Making jobs spam the same move more than once feels boring

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

It's just during the job actions trailer, everyone gawked at WAR spamming Cleave 5x and SAM doing Midare twice. What's it going to take to get that reaction in 6.0? Fell Cleave just getting upgraded to Nascent Chaos and being able to use that 5x in a row during IR? SAM getting to use Midare 3x in a row? DRG getting 2 stardivers per Life? BLM getting a third charge of Polyglot?

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Not worried about people gawking. People gawked at SAM potencies on stormbloods release and threw fits. It was in a bad spot all expansion partly due to this.

I don't really care about the average users opinion on skills anymore. Most of the time their opinions are bad.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

But then you run into the issue of having to deal with your job acting entirely differently when they reach 80, something monks have to deal with, what with having 4 stacks of GL in a stance they've largely ignored up until 76. In fact, for most monks, this is a source of consternation because now they have to worry about building even more stacks without reliable ways to do so, on top of a very stale rotation.

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I think switching things up and creating more difficulty in the class as it gets higher level is a good thing. I dont want my class to not change or barely change mechanically from 50-80. Quite literally feels like the issue I get with DRK. After you get delirium, theres nothing else to the class really. Most of 70+ gives you either tank CDs, or a dot you cast every 2 minutes. And before delirium its almost quite literally "if its not on CD, youre doing it wrong." There's no strategem to the playstyle itself. Its just keep pressing that oGCD to keep it on CD. Its meaningless.

Even in monks case, that extra GL isnt that big a deal. Its definitely more pressure to keep stacks up cause yeah, getting 4 stacks back is a pain. But I can get to 4 stacks pretty quickly with the opener and maintain that with the given abilities most of the time. I dont find it a problem, and if anything, I welcome it. The only complaint I have is the clunky nature of Anatman. If I could ask for any hotfix to the class, Anatman shouldnt be broken if you turn your character (with your mouse mind you). That is just stupid AF.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I think switching things up and creating more difficulty in the class as it gets higher level is a good thing. I dont want my class to not change or barely change mechanically from 50-80. Quite literally feels like the issue I get with DRK. After you get delirium, theres nothing else to the class really. Most of 70+ gives you either tank CDs, or a dot you cast every 2 minutes. And before delirium its almost quite literally "if its not on CD, youre doing it wrong." There's no strategem to the playstyle itself. Its just keep pressing that oGCD to keep it on CD. Its meaningless.

Even in monks case, that extra GL isnt that big a deal. Its definitely more pressure to keep stacks up cause yeah, getting 4 stacks back is a pain. But I can get to 4 stacks pretty quickly with the opener and maintain that with the given abilities most of the time. I dont find it a problem, and if anything, I welcome it. The only complaint I have is the clunky nature of Anatman. If I could ask for any hotfix to the class, Anatman shouldnt be broken if you turn your character (with your mouse mind you). That is just stupid AF.

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Don't use standard camera, legacy camera let's you turn your camera and not break channeling skills. It's also a way better control method

Whats the difference? I currently use and hold right click to act as a means to turn my character with WASD as the usual forward, backward, strafe left and right. Its that left click hold and turn that breaks channeling with anatman, even if my characters physical floor plane position isnt moving.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Whats the difference? I currently use and hold right click to act as a means to turn my character with WASD as the usual forward, backward, strafe left and right. Its that left click hold and turn that breaks channeling with anatman, even if my characters physical floor plane position isnt moving.

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Standard camera, the camera controls the character. So if you move the camera, it moves your character, breaking things that channel.

Legacy camera is character controls the camera, so you can move the camera arou d without moving your character. It also let's you reverse at full speed instead of slowly backpedalling. Makes avoiding aoes much easier.

It also prevents the weird thing where if you run through a mob and hit a skill, it turns you and the camera around making you do a uturn essentially.

You can easily adjust standard camera settings though so e.g. the camera doesn't automatically turn. Standard camera isn't nearly as restricting and bad as people make it out to be, it definitely has it ups aswell. Most simply don't know how the various options affect it.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Standard camera, the camera controls the character. So if you move the camera, it moves your character, breaking things that channel.

Legacy camera is character controls the camera, so you can move the camera arou d without moving your character. It also let's you reverse at full speed instead of slowly backpedalling. Makes avoiding aoes much easier.

It also prevents the weird thing where if you run through a mob and hit a skill, it turns you and the camera around making you do a uturn essentially.

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Hmm interesting. Ill try that out later. thanks :>

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

It's just during the job actions trailer, everyone gawked at WAR spamming Cleave 5x and SAM doing Midare twice. What's it going to take to get that reaction in 6.0? Fell Cleave just getting upgraded to Nascent Chaos and being able to use that 5x in a row during IR? SAM getting to use Midare 3x in a row? DRG getting 2 stardivers per Life? BLM getting a third charge of Polyglot?

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So...what is it you want? "Hey, congrats on making it to 80, now forget everything you did before because the next 10 levels are CRAZY"? Have jobs function entirely differently before, during, and after this expansion's Deep Dungeon? Why does there need to be a revamp? Why do classes need to function differently at different levels? Hell, tons of people don't queue for leveling roulette because they don't want to sync down to a level that doesn't ha e core rotations.

The only jobs where I feel I'm spamming a skill a bit is PLD with the magic rotation or Atonement for mp regen and MCH during Overheat. One extra Iaijutsu every 60 seconds doesn't feel like spam to me. I hit a lot of other butts in between for that.

And even for PLD, outside of the magic rotation/atonement, there are a lot of buttons to keep track of like Goring Blade, FoF, Spirits Within, Sheltron, etc. which break up the monotony. MCH has a lot to keep track of as well, so being able to focus on Heat Blast > Gauss Round/Ricochet for a bit is a nice breather, imo.

I'm not bothered by this "spamming" either. It's really not as widespread as the OP made it seem (I wouldn't even count SAM as a job that has "same skill spam"; doing the same skill twice, not like 5-6 times in a row but just twice, and even then you can't ALWAYS do it twice, just when the new skill is up, really doesn't count if you ask me) and doing things like Enchanted Moulinet x5 as RDM... just feels fine to me I guess. Would I object to the addition of an AOE Melee Combo so that it was no longer one move 5 times? No, I'd be fine with that. But I'm really not fussed either way. And honestly as far as "RDM AOE additions" go, I'd rank getting some kind of finisher (like we get with our single-target melee combo) way higher in importance than changing Moulinet x5 spam into a combo.

It's not like there aren't plenty of different buttons to push on each class; the aspect that involves pressing the same skill more than once in a short period of time is only one component of any given job's rotation/approach (healers notwithstanding. I do feel healers have a legit complaint in this area right now, by simply having too few buttons to push when DPS'ing).

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

You can easily adjust standard camera settings though so e.g. the camera doesn't automatically turn. Standard camera isn't nearly as restricting and bad as people make it out to be, it definitely has it ups aswell. Most simply don't know how the various options affect it.

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Yeah, I much prefer Standard in almost every way. Whenever I see people declaring that Legacy is "just better", it weirds me out a bit. It's very subjective, and people should be encouraged to try both, not just "use this one instead".

I will note, I JUST got Meditate with SAM last night and didn't really try it out very extensively, and don't have MNK leveled up high enough for Anatman (still at level 20-something PUG), so I have yet to use either skill and try to spin the camera while they're going to see what happens. Now I'm curious so I'll try it tonight with Meditate when I'm back on the game. With Standard, using left-click turn spins the camera only, your character doesn't turn. So if left-click turn were to interrupt channeled skills, that'd be hilariously stupid.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It also prevents the weird thing where if you run through a mob and hit a skill, it turns you and the camera around making you do a uturn essentially.

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This is literally the only thing about Legacy that I wish I could have in Standard, lol. You can work around this issue in Standard by being ready for it - I'm well used to it after years of playing so I'm pretty good at being prepared to make slight adjustments to my movements whenever I try to run-and-gun, but it would be nice to not have to worry about it at all. Other than that one thing, though, I like how Standard handles camera controls and movement much better than Legacy.