A good old boyish cott

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Originally Posted by Elladie

The point is, optimal play IS that important to a lot of people, even if they aren't that skilled a player themselves. Currently I'm comfortable with DPS as a healer even in Eden4 which, for me, is a duty that needs a lot of concentration to deal with mechanics. If you increase complexity of my DPS rotation, something is going to give. I will struggle to learn the next new fight because I'll be worrying about being judged for non-optimal play ( how many DPS or get kicked posts have we seen right here?) and I'll end up losing my confidence and going back to doing no content that involves other people.

I am not asking for carries, I am asking for basic content to be doable by all players as long as they take the time to learn their job and the mechanics of the duty. So I'm also asking that unnecessary complexity not be added to my healer DPS rotation so that I focus on said job (healing first and foremost) and executing mechanics. This may come as a surprise to a lot of people here, but a large number of players find boss fights demanding and not because they're lazy idiots. I am fifty eight, my memory isn't what it was and nor are my hands. I am also directionally challenged and have been all my life, by which I mean I don't know my left from my right without a great deal of thought, and I become lost very easily IRL as well as in game.

I'm not demanding SE make Savage or Ultimate easy so that I can do it, I accept it's above what I accomplish until I massively outgear it. Please don't ask for something I CAN accomplish - to DPS as a healer in regular duties - to also go back to being too complex for me

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Then what about those that DO enjoy complexity on their healer? Should they be left to rot? I don't think 1 healer being a simple to pick up healer is an issue at all, but for those who want complexity in what they do as a healer, and don't want to give themselves carpal tunnel (looking at you AST), they have nowhere to go. This is where compromise comes in, maybe if they do make a 4th healer best expac, which I have my doubts, but if they do, then have 2 simple to pick up healers and 2 complex ones, but it's not fair to us, right now, that do enjoy complexity that we're forced to either not play the role we enjoy,or forced to just deal with not liking it because they ALL have to be simple.

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Originally Posted by Elladie

The point is, optimal play IS that important to a lot of people, even if they aren't that skilled a player themselves. Currently I'm comfortable with DPS as a healer even in Eden4 which, for me, is a duty that needs a lot of concentration to deal with mechanics. If you increase complexity of my DPS rotation, something is going to give. I will struggle to learn the next new fight because I'll be worrying about being judged for non-optimal play ( how many DPS or get kicked posts have we seen right here?) and I'll end up losing my confidence and going back to doing no content that involves other people.

I am not asking for carries, I am asking for basic content to be doable by all players as long as they take the time to learn their job and the mechanics of the duty. So I'm also asking that unnecessary complexity not be added to my healer DPS rotation so that I focus on said job (healing first and foremost) and executing mechanics. This may come as a surprise to a lot of people here, but a large number of players find boss fights demanding and not because they're lazy idiots. I am fifty eight, my memory isn't what it was and nor are my hands. I am also directionally challenged and have been all my life, by which I mean I don't know my left from my right without a great deal of thought, and I become lost very easily IRL as well as in game.

I'm not demanding SE make Savage or Ultimate easy so that I can do it, I accept it's above what I accomplish until I massively outgear it. Please don't ask for something I CAN accomplish - to DPS as a healer in regular duties - to also go back to being too complex for me

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So for the people currently unhappy with the 1 DoT, 1 Nuke spam cannot have anything added then gotcha, because no matter what happens if SE tries to please those type of people(myself included) it will add some level of complexity be it extra buffs/debuffs to manage, more DoTs, whatever extra to do during downtime to manage anyone could come up with which will trickle down the vine affecting you and others like you.

So just got to agree to the reduction of anything on healers because that will keep people happy, less to do after all, not like tanks wish they had a greater impact in content like tank specific things but healers should just be grateful that they get gutted, should be happy they were made unhappy by the out of nowhere changes :rolleyes:

I get that some people are... angry about, I don't know, something?

I dunno. I have my WHM on 80 and it works just fine in the stuff I run (non-Savage), so I'm content.

I haven't really seen that many problems with my SCH and AST which are 69-71 either.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Then what about those that DO enjoy complexity on their healer? Should they be left to rot? I don't think 1 healer being a simple to pick up healer is an issue at all, but for those who want complexity in what they do as a healer, and don't want to give themselves carpal tunnel (looking at you AST), they have nowhere to go. This is where compromise comes in, maybe if they do make a 4th healer best expac, which I have my doubts, but if they do, then have 2 simple to pick up healers and 2 complex ones, but it's not fair to us, right now, that do enjoy complexity that we're forced to either not play the role we enjoy,or forced to just deal with not liking it because they ALL have to be simple.

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Maybe if people would stop mistreating healers who are somewhat lesser-skilled, who can't handle the increased complexity, who keep people alive, but do less-than-optimal DPS to achieve that, then maybe people like the person you quoted wouldn't mind an extra DoT button, or an extra DPS button.

But even when you're doing Duty Finder, or you post on these forums that you don't do Savage, you still get people in your face going "YOU'RE NOT CLIPPING oGCDs! LOOK AT THOSE DPS SPELLS YOU MISSED! YOU MISSED A GCD BECAUSE YOU WERE 0.5s LATE WITH THAT CAST!" like it's top percentile you're supposed to be chasing in Duty Finder.

The elitist crowd only have themselves to blame.

I, too, don't think healers need to be any more complex with DPS. DPS should be a secondary task to keeping people alive. We are healers who can throw a little DPS, not DPS who throw a little heals. If you want the latter, go play RDM.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I get that some people are... angry about, I don't know, something?

I dunno. I have my WHM on 80 and it works just fine in the stuff I run (non-Savage), so I'm content.

I haven't really seen that many problems with my SCH and AST which are 69-71 either.

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The issues aren't with viability. I run Savage on SCH and it does its job fine enough, my issue is that doing that job is boring because 80% of the time you're doing the same thing of spamming the 1 nuke over and over and over again. It feels like punishment because I chose to get better at my lads instead of coasting along because now I actively have less to do.

TBH, I'll be playing healers until another game does it better.

Which isn't likely. And even if it happens I'll still play 14 for the story. But in the meantime, Shadowbringers is not worse than Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

The issues aren't with viability. I run Savage on SCH and it does its job fine enough, my issue is that doing that job is boring because 80% of the time you're doing the same thing of spamming the 1 nuke over and over and over again. It feels like punishment because I chose to get better at my lads instead of coasting along because now I actively have less to do.

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Not our fault some people need constant stimulation or they get bored in the span of 5-10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

TBH, I'll be playing healers until another game does it better.

Which isn't likely. And even if it happens I'll still play 14 for the story. But in the meantime, Shadowbringers is not worse than Stormblood.

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I dunno some people claim they like WoW healing.

...... /bleck.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Not our fault some people need constant stimulation or they get bored in the span of 5-10 seconds.

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I play video games to be engaged. If I wanted to sit around and do nothing, I'd watch a movie.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I play video games to be engaged. If I wanted to sit around and do nothing, I'd watch a movie.

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...but yet you call AST "carpal tunnel inducing", lol.

Which is it, you want to be doing things constantly, or you don't.

Honestly, you people don't seem like you can make up your mind.

why are you all stuck on this retarded mindset that what we just ask for a simple "add us more damage skill buttons and nothing else" and also being scared shit from that.
its about making the healers downtime fun and adding dps skills isn't the only way to do it,we want more flavor in the classes and more meanings,so get out of that fear that if you press more then 1 button it will ruin everything and kill you.

people ask for having their class fun and meaningful not being a snooze fest and having a kit that fit a mindless bot.
there is no depth to the kits and they are all identical,one class being simple is fine but all 3 being identical and especially have the other 2 with 0 depth is not ok with me.

SCH is a summoner support class with arcanist roots, people who played it found it fun having pets to use especially more then 1.
would it be that bad to have scholar maybe keep his arcanist kit or just keep carbuncle that badly if they gutted out eos and selene like that and if implemented right it wont even add buttons.
SCH concept is being a tactical support pet class,it was meant to be a bit more challenging then the other healers so having a slightly more tactical aspect like more then 1 dots or having an engaging pet interactions like having more then 1 pet with different skills and a bit of swapping actions would kill you that badly?

AST concept is reading his fate with his cards and applying various buffs to his members, even with the oversimplified card system, would it had been that hard to redesign the cards that they will have different buffs and each would feel good to use in some way instead of all of them being the same buff and especially a low damage one at that.and if you find it too difficult to comprehend then how about just change divination to be more meaningful with the different seals. AST was not only for those who like to give different buffs, it also was meant for those who like some sort of RNG mechanic to it, you still have that RNG but would it kill you so much to have buff diversity to it as well.

there need to be a different in them ,in their play style and most importantly there need to be depth(meaning) you play them especially during downtime.

trying to play optimaly is fine but gutting identities and excusing it for the sake of optimal play is just wrong.
if complexity in a healers scares you that much,just play the simpler healer job among them(a.k.a WHM) and drop the other 2 ,there is a reason why there are 3 different healers or at least should be after all.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

...but yet you call AST "carpal tunnel inducing", lol.

Which is it, you want to be doing things constantly, or you don't.

Honestly, you people don't seem like you can make up your mind.

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you know its because the new AST system isn't controller friendly and not because its complex right?(its probably why they are reducing minor arcana actions to apply lord/lady right away)

if you want more details ,from what i read it is because of how sleeve draw works and not because of how "complex" the system is,so i guess thats what he meant by "carpal tunnel inducing",but if you need more explanations maybe someone who plays with a controller can give better then me :)