SAM got Instant Cast Tsubame and Hagakure is back Meikyo cd reduced to 55 + Shoha!!!

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Originally Posted by Jimsvaliant

Nerfed Hagakure actually makes the class flow even better. It's just not the Shinten rotation that it used to be.

I mean it's essentially the same problem right? SAMs will be worried about savage spots because they're eclipsed by Dragoons and Monks who have better rDPS and bring utility. We're not competing with MCHs here. I'm glad that SAMs are accessible but the selfish melee DPS does the worst DPS, barring NIN of course.

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As far as I am aware, SAM does more raw DPS than MCH, even when put into fights with heavy movement. And you're primarily competing for a selfish DPS spot that happens to also compete with other DPS directly. None of the selfish DPS should ever be outcompeted by support DPS, that much is a given. MCH just happens to be the worst of the selfish DPS (as it should be) but that puts it under other DPS that aren't selfish (which is bad).

SAM is the easiest melee to play by far, has zero positional requirements, is pretty mobile, has the simplest rotation and, not knowing Savage right now, puts out easily enough DPS to beat enrage timers. For the vast majority of players, SAM will be better than NIN or MNK simply because its so easy to get high performance out of SAM, and not so easy (and more fight dependant) to do the same for MNK and especially NIN.

MNKs miss a lot of positionals because of the boss turning suddenly to target something, some mechanic being in a place it shouldnt be, RNG hating your favorite spot with telegraphs and so on. SAM doesnt care, just runs his rotation. MNK gets rooted, stunned, CC'd or cut off from the fight and loses GL or stance? Well too bad, you are now the worst DPS in the raid for 20 seconds+, whereas SAM doesnt care.

People that believe the meta applies to them are in an easy 98% of cases deluding themselves. The obsession of the NA community with theoretical "best of class" metas does simply not apply to the vast vast majority of players.

I am certain that given same player skill and same gear, SAM outperforms MNK and NIN after the patch just because its so easy, and most DPS players not mechanically good.

but Sams have positonals too

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

but Sams have positonals too

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Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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Eh um hm <.<

Check your tooltips, too. You need to get two combo finishers in order to get the most kenki out of them. More kenki means more shinten. So technically that qualifies as a positional to increase damage. Then again, it's more impactful on the long run rather then immediately, so in comparison to other classes you don't see it immediately. Wasn't rebuking any of your other points btw, just pointing out that positionals exist on SAM too.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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I mean if you don't want to generate Kenki then I guess

Ok, you talk about the +5 kenki every 9+ GCDs, I get it. Sorry I wasnt considering that as a positional requirement. It is a miniscule DPS boost if you move around once every 9 GCDs, that is correct. What I meant was stuff like NIN TA not even doing its primary function, or MNKs massive potency losses on every GCD if you are not in the correct spot.

But yes, technically Samurai would have to do a little sidestep every 20 seconds. Assuming a GCD of 2.4 roughly, uninterrupted, doing that sidestep nets you the 25 extra kenki every 132 seconds if my math is correct (including Iaijutsu), or lets say between 120 and 140 seconds. (you will always be in a position to hit ONE of your positionals, thats why I only calculate the other that would require you to move). Titania EX has about 7 minutes actual fight time, minus every second you need to move. So you build an entire 3, in a REALLY slow DPS group hitting the enrage maybe a 4th Shinten over the entire fight, assuming you never overflow, mismanage or step wrong, that means a total of 960 potency. Also called "less than Shoha nets you in that fight", a skill widely panned as useless.

I dont really see that as a positional playstyle. sorry. Especially since Kenki generation is also not gatekeeping any opener or general rotation issues of the more important skills.

I would presume that having the SAM stay in one position is actually more beneficial due to clarity of movement, positions and raid placement over 3 more Shintens per clear.

Losing a positional on SAM is actually the highest DPS loss of any melee class other than trick attack

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Errr no? Not a single skill of SAM needs him to be in a specific position of the boss. Check your tooltips.

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https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/samurai/

Check Kasha and Gekko.
It only applies from lvl 52 on though, and if we take Shinten as a dump for that extra Kenki it's 64 potency. Before lvl 62 that kenki will mostly be used for Kaiten before Midare Setsugekka, which makes the positional worth 100 potency.
For most monk skills the difference is just 20 potency. Although monks use the corresponding skills more frequently than samurai, the samurai is punished much more for missing it. The exception being bootshine, which is a guaranteed crit from the rear.
Ninja has 3 positionals, 2 have a potency difference of 60, the thrid is way more significant but has a 60s cooldown.
Dragoon also has 3, each with a difference of 40 potency.

So samurai has to deal with positionals just like the other classes do. Actually, i thought the impact for a samurai missing his positional was much less severe than it is for other classes, but looking at the numbers, that isn't the case.

Also, having True North would make absolutely no sense otherwise.