Why are standards seen as a crime in this game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

Which is still no excuse because there are guides for almost everything in the game.

---

There's an issue with something like this though.

It requires using 3rd party sites in order to actually utilize.

Many players don't use 3rd party sites to play games, nor should they be expected to.

The game itself should provide the basic and intermediate levels of knowledge needed.

It should teach people about how to use their rotations, how much benefit each stat gives, what the breakpoints of stats are, how much DPS someone is doing (Also, how much effective HPS and overhealing someone is doing too)

But alas, this is not the case in FFXIV. Where, even stats are only listed as arbitrary "Ratings" that need to be tested (Or looked up on a 3rd party site made by someone who's already tested them) to see how much Crit gives 1% crit chance.

Where even certain parts of the game (Notably, Eureka) are heavily dependent on the use of 3rd party sites to function properly (To check NM cooldowns as well as weather timings)

It's this kind of hands off approach that leads to many people not knowing that they're underperforming because the game tells them absolutely nothing.

In fact, the only way they'd be able to tell they're underperforming is if they used a 3rd party program to parse their damage and then compared themselves to others on a 3rd party site and then saw the discrepancy.

Which, when you think about it... Is kind of crazy.

This is the thread with more b.s. in the forums.

https://i.imgur.com/1mDbZxU.gif

The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.

I don't know what the world may need
But I'm sure as hell that it starts with me.

I, for one, enjoy being able to afk through 90% of content and have others clear it for me. Maybe this game just isn't for you OP?

I was running A9S with a group today and we had 1 tank (me) 1 healer, and 6 DPS. I kindly asked those that could to use diversion on the main boss so I could stay in DPS stance as much as possible.

Not a single one of them used it. Out of I think 4 of them. Couldn't be arsed to push a single button before the pull.

What I find curious is the (compared to pretty much every other MMO I've played) relatively high amount of players who come unprepared but don't mention that they're unprepared.
If you're new to a dungeon/ trial and have absolutely no clue what to do here... why not say so?
Why not write a simple "hey, first time here. any mechanics I need to pay attention to?".
I don't expect people to watch or read a thorough guide before every duty, though I welcome it if they do. Brownie points for coming prepared!
But at least tell others that you have no idea what to expect. That's common curtesy and has nothing to do with elitism. There's always someone who knows his stuff and can help, but silently hoping nobody notices that you don't know what to do is imo really thoughtless.
Even below 50 there are a couple of dungeons with mechanics that can cause wipe after wipe if ignored, like Qarn 1st boss, Chimera's skills in Cutter's Cry, Fruits in AV etc.
Yet when I wiped with a group and asked "hey, XY, do you know about the mechanics here?" I often get no response at all and quick explanations are being ignored. Just got out of another trial with people like that. Shiva really isn't terribly complicated. Lots of people watching cutscene, lots of early 50ish people. Asked "anybody here doesn't know what to do? :)". No response.
Followed by four wipes because people died from standing in stuff, getting frozen etc, but ignored the offer from a RDM and me to lead them to safe spots aswell as the quick overview we gave.
5 people obviously didn't know a thing about this fight (which is fine) but didn't speak up (which is NOT fine).
The party chat is there for a reason.
I've met these kinds of people in every MMO but never to the extend as in FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

There's an issue with something like this though.

It requires using 3rd party sites in order to actually utilize.

Many players don't use 3rd party sites to play games, nor should they be expected to.

The game itself should provide the basic and intermediate levels of knowledge needed.

It should teach people about how to use their rotations, how much benefit each stat gives, what the breakpoints of stats are, how much DPS someone is doing (Also, how much effective HPS and overhealing someone is doing too)

But alas, this is not the case in FFXIV. Where, even stats are only listed as arbitrary "Ratings" that need to be tested (Or looked up on a 3rd party site made by someone who's already tested them) to see how much Crit gives 1% crit chance.

Where even certain parts of the game (Notably, Eureka) are heavily dependent on the use of 3rd party sites to function properly (To check NM cooldowns as well as weather timings)

It's this kind of hands off approach that leads to many people not knowing that they're underperforming because the game tells them absolutely nothing.

In fact, the only way they'd be able to tell they're underperforming is if they used a 3rd party program to parse their damage and then compared themselves to others on a 3rd party site and then saw the discrepancy.

Which, when you think about it... Is kind of crazy.

---

If a person wants to better themselves, then research should be expected whether in game or outside of the game. Entire communites are formed outside of the game (website/discord servers) where people can converse and learn how to better improve themselves. It's like going to college and saying I shouldn't be expected to research for myself. School does not tell you everything you need to know and thus you must look to the community outside to further your knowledge.

Guides are often reproduced from the community itself and players who are willing to take the time to benchmark and share its information to the playerbase willingly. When I first reach 70 on any class my goal is to figure out how to optimize myself regardless if I know I am producing good dps or not. I believe a player should at least have a desire or willingness to be able to go outside of the game in a simple webpage and research for themselves if they want to become better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VirusOnline

If a person wants to better themselves, then research should be expected whether in game or outside of the game. It's like going to college and saying I shouldn't be expected to research for myself. School does not tell you everything you need to know and thus you must look to the community outside to further your knowledge.

Guides are often reproduced from the community itself and players who are willing to take the time to benchmark and share its information to the playerbase willingly.

---

There's a level of "Betterment" to be talked about.

For upper echelon gameplay, yes, other sites would be used to scrutinize every little detail to eke out every bit of performance, and to do things like discuss with others about stat priorities.

However, the fundamentals of the game should be taught within the game.

Especially when guides, are all aimed at max level players whom are already somewhat familiar with how to play.

The analogy is not going to college and not studying. This is going to primary/secondary (First/middle/high) school and the teachers being like "Lol, just google it"

In this analogy, the game should be school. Where you're taught everything from your abc's to algebra. This would be everything you need to know to be able to play your class and know somewhat how gearing works and stuff like materia functions (How gear has maximum values for stats, that materia can be removed from gear etc)

College, would be when someone is moving into Savage/Ultimate content, where they will need to proactively seek out their own information. Where much of their learning happens outside of the classroom (Game). This would be the level of content where people should be needing to look up optimization guides and obsess over melding towards breakpoints over their stat priorities.

For most people, they will never step foot into Savage/Ultimate content. Thus, their need to go trawling through parsers and websites would not exist. Which, shouldn't be an issue since outside of this level of content, it shouldn't be required to seek out guidance on basic fundamentals of the game like "What do my stats even do?"

This is part of the issue that arises, the players whom don't perform well in game, are those same people that don't bother to go looking up guides, because well... They shouldn't have to, they're only playing casually. Not everyone is striving to be the top 1% and that's okay.

What's not okay is giving players zero information under the assumption that everyone will be striving to be the top 1% and therefore will be undergoing their own research into performance (Also, using 3rd party software to parse because the game doesn't actually let you track your own performance naturally, not even on dummies in Stone, Sky & Sea)

I had met this Dark Knight in the Ghymlit Dark and they were having a hard time keeping aggro. I noticed and tried to offer some advice such as "If you use unleash just a few times it'll help you keep aggro." and "You don't want to use provoke to pull mobs, use unmend and follow with a few unleashes." I was met with "I'm level 70. Stop." Which I did. But they seemed to think they're exempt to being bad because they're level 70. It's irritating since I was the healer on this run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalise

For most people, they will never step foot into Savage/Ultimate content. Thus, their need to go trawling through parsers and websites would not exist. Which, shouldn't be an issue since outside of this level of content, it shouldn't be required to seek out guidance on basic fundamentals of the game like "What do my stats even do?"

This is part of the issue that arises, the players whom don't perform well in game, are those same people that don't bother to go looking up guides, because well... They shouldn't have to, they're only playing casually. Not everyone is striving to be the top 1% and that's okay.

What's not okay is giving players zero information under the assumption that everyone will be striving to be the top 1% and therefore will be undergoing their own research into performance (Also, using 3rd party software to parse because the game doesn't actually let you track your own performance naturally, not even on dummies in Stone, Sky & Sea)

---

The guides don't point to only the '1%s'/hardcores. The guides aren't about striving to the top - it's about guiding a player who wishes to learn more about their class learn more and if they want to the guide supplies even more copious knowledge. The guides and discords supply basic knowledge of rotations as well. You take that knowledge and you can apply it to whatever level of play you want.

The game itself doesn't believe everyone will be striving towards the top. SE knows this. There exists tooltips upon each ability and every ability - that's not zero information. I was casual before I started raiding and I soley relied on those tooltips in order to create a basic rotation for myself without researching outside of the game. And as you said that's ok. But whether they should or shouldn't have to look up a guide is completely subjective. The tooltips are there to help people formulate their own rotations as a casual.