Male Viera (BunBros) - We Want Them - With Heels!

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Originally Posted by TarynH

You can say I'm reaching on that, but I'm not wrong. OP is basically saying that female Viera just aren't good enough without males.

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Well this is a bigger wreck than beating Doom Train in Sigmascape Savage.


I mean right now I'd like to see more male builds in general, we got boxes, slendermen, baras, potatoes, traps, giraffes and guys who looked like someone peed in their Cheerios. Byakko has a nice build that I remember seeing in early concept of male Viera art. So it's pretty much given they were going to do some Male Viera pre Stormblood but opted for Au Ra instead. Who knows if they have furthered the concept of them. But obviously they were working on males before.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

Some do, and that's totally fine, but people like me don't want to have to be forced to play as a female in order to preserve the lore which is already broken by Paissa houses and motorcycles in the game.

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Excuse me while I ride off on my totally immersing Fat Cat mount.

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

none of your business.

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That's the problem. It is some of my business, as well as others. I play the game too, and should have a say as well. Again, not against male Viera, but I want them to fit the lore. That's not too much to ask.

It should depend on lore and what is established in not only this game, but past titles that featured Viera. There should be some leeway in an MMO, but there should also be some ground rules. Not everything should be pandered too because someone complains, or wants special treatment.

It shouldn't relate to real world problems. The whole point of 99% of games is to get away from the real world.

When the devs do address something like this (bunny suits), they totally misconstrue what people actually wanted. Most did not want the female version of the suit on their males. They wanted a male version that better suited their males. So when you slap on "and I want heels" (assuming it's not too late for that) they're going to think you want some different concept entirely. Which brings me to...

You missed my point entirely about the role play comment. Your picture of the Roe, is exactly what I'm talking about. You can dress him however you want, but he still looks like a masculine Roe (in rather fetching strappy attire). I'm stating for the Viera, that if they just added a boobless version and slapped "male" on it, that defeats the whole purpose, in my opinion. There would be absolutely no point in having male Viera, if they're just the same as the females. It's not about how they're dressed, it's about how they are addressed in development.

Tying that to this thread, I ask again, why do the male Viera need heels? It confuses the issue. The concept art even removes them for the males. Why is that a must? Why is that a sticking point for the OP? Why do they have to be like the females in that regard? Can they not be their own unique thing? And if they have to be like the females, then what's wrong with just having female only?

There needs to be more clarification than what was said. It's too simple. "We want male Viera, and we want heels." to a dev looks like "We want male Viera, and kinda want them to be like female Viera." Just like the bunny suit all over again. Everyone was screaming "we want the bunny suit too," when they should've been screaming "we want a unique male version of the bunny suit." Because after it came out, there was a lot of disappointment in what we got. I think I've seen maybe two males wearing it on my server.

To me, all this thread says is, "We want male Viera, because female just aren't good enough." Just like every single one like it that's been posted. Even before we know for sure if we'll get male Viera or not. And it's just throwing confusion in the mix with the "heels" thing.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

That's the problem. It is some of my business, as well as others. I play the game too, and should have a say as well. Again, not against male Viera, but I want them to fit the lore. That's not too much to ask.

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Multiple Male Moon Miqote don't fit the lore
The plethora of White Mages in this game don't fit the lore
A flying Adamantoise mount doesn't exactly fit the lore.

And yes, saying that just one gender is not good enough, says enough for equality. If there was a race that was only male, people would say the same. So what.

You play a game with many other players. What a person chooses for a character that you will likely NOT spend significant amounts of time really being around is really none of your business.

Also are you seriously worried bout heels?

https://twitter.com/FrischeNq/status...18228883120134

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

Is that seriously lore breaking for you?

Have you never seen a Viera's foot structure? They physically need heels to walk because the only thing that connects with the ground is their toes. The only other option is to make them go barefoot, but thanks to how the game is designed that is also impossible to implement without characters looking like they're floating on air. That is the reason why when we have nothing equipped on our feet, the models show them wearing sandals.

Again, lore from other Final Fantasy games is rearranged to fit into Final Fantasy XIV. You know what else contradicts established lore? The fact that the kingdom of Dalmasca is existing prior to the kingdom of Ivalice, which is the reverse in the timeline of the world of Ivalice/Tactics. I don't see you making a big deal out of that at all.

As for your need of immersion, if you were actually playing this game you would see how little people care to fit stereotypical archetypes. I've gotten used to people running around in dungeons wearing maid outfits and pig costumes, but heels on a male character would just be too much for you to handle. What would you even do if you saw a guy wearing heels in real life? Would you get in their face and try to police their behavior as well? Or would you let them do whatever they want because at the end of the day they have zero real impact on your life anyway?

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Originally Posted by TarynH

I'm stating for the Viera, that if they just added a boobless version and slapped "male" on it, that defeats the whole purpose, in my opinion. There would be absolutely no point in having male Viera, if they're just the same as the females. It's not about how they're dressed, it's about how they are addressed in development.

Tying that to this thread, I ask again, why do the male Viera need heels? It confuses the issue. The concept art even removes them for the males. Why is that a must? Why is that a sticking point for the OP? Why do they have to be like the females in that regard? Can they not be their own unique thing? And if they have to be like the females, then what's wrong with just having female only?

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Is the "heels" phrasing what you're actually taking offense to?

I was of the impression that it was a badly-termed request for digitigrade feet - as shown in the concept art of the certainly-not-just-boobless-female male Viera that was posted alongside (and referred to in) the text.

I don't think anyone here is asking for male Viera that look like females. Can't speak for others, but I want to see something that looks like that original image: a unique-looking character design that completely subverts what you'd think of when you suggest "bunny race". (Whereas females, in spite of their interesting lore as fierce jungle warriors, look like exactly what you'd expect from a bunny race. Though I hope to see at least some people making costumes for their characters that suit their actual lore, rather than the utterly impractical metal-and-leather bikini outfit that seems completely at odds with their description. If anything is going to 'devalue' female Viera and their lore, I'd say the grand reveal reducing them to "standing around in cute poses wearing metal lingerie" does a pretty good job of it.)

Design-wise, female Viera aren't good enough if it was the male concept art that seemed like a character you wanted to play. Wanting that design to be available doesn't say anything about the value of female Viera within the story. It just means people want to play as a character that looks cool and should exist within the setting, because we've already been told that they do exist.

It's a cool design, and I want to see it happen too.

With digitigrade heels.

https://cdn3.dualshockers.com/wp-con.../04/Viera1.jpg

(Though I have to wonder if that particular concept art got integrated into the final design for male Au Ra. Was it from the same presentation that had the really beastlike male Au Ra concept and the fierce females that should have paired nicely with the current male designs? It looks like the concept-Viera have a similar build to the in-game Au Ra. Or maybe it's just a side-effect of the same character designer working on both.)

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

If there was a race that was only male, people would say the same. So what.

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Precisely what I said earlier. I'd have no problem with a male only race being added to compliment the Viera. Problem is, some think that by not having male Viera, it somehow takes away from what the Viera are as a race. Just as others would think that not having females would somehow be a detriment to the hypothetical male race. I simply don't see it that way. To me, they're fine if one is male only, and the other female only. Just like Mithra and Galka on FFXI. Didn't upset me one bit. And it didn't take away anything from the game whatsoever. Furthermore, there was far less complaining about it back then, than there is now about this.

I played the ARR beta as a male Miqote, because they only had one male Mithra npc in FFXI. It was fine and all. Didn't change my enjoyment of the game one way or the other. What I did appreciate was it being drastically different than the female Miqote. It would've been fine without them in game. But the fact that they were so different, made them quite enjoyable to have in game.

And it would be fine without male Viera. If they add them, great. If not, well it wasn't meant to be. But if they just add them to appease, and they're basically reskinned females... I think that would be a tragedy personally. As well as wasted resources. Because that's obviously not what people are wanting. It's certainly not what I want. I want them to be different. I actually like the concept art of them being muscular enough to not need heels.

That's all I'm trying to say here. Make them rugged, muscular, masculine. Just like male Roes and Hyurs. Make them fit their own lore. I don't give a crap about turtles and white mages. I'm saying the Viera should fit their own established lore. And not just FFXIV Viera lore, but all established lore for them. How they dress should be completely detached from how they look. I don't care how the player dresses them. You're right, that is none of my business, and it changes constantly. I care how their base model looks, and that is kind of everyone's business that might have an opinion on it. I want to see them done well. Not just another bunny suit appeasement case.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

What I did appreciate was it being drastically different than the female Miqote. It would've been fine without them in game. But the fact that they were so different, made them quite enjoyable to have in game.

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I made a long post that probably went up while you were in the middle of typing, so wanted to make sure you haven't missed it. But as I said just above, I don't think people are asking for male Viera to look like females - they're asking for them to look like the concept art posted at the start of the topic.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Is the "heels" phrasing what you're actually taking offense to?

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Again, I'm not taking offense to "heels" in particular. I don't care if a guy wears heels, or if a unicorn wears heels. What I want is for the OP to clarify what they are precisely asking for here. Are they asking for a completely different version of the Viera that can just wear heels. Or are they asking that the male version be like the female version. Yes, they posted old concept art, but didn't specify they wanted something like that. And the concept art they posted has them without heels.

Instead, what I'm getting is a lot of people completely misunderstanding my viewpoint here. Thinking I'm somehow against guys wearing female clothing. Not at all the case. I don't care if male Highlanders get string bikinis.

So I'll try to be succinct here:
If male Viera are added, I want them to be the rugged, masculine, fight-to-survive, bottom dwellers that are talked about in game already.
I don't care what they wear after that. They can wear a leaf and tiara for all I care.
I do not want them to look like boobless carbon copy versions of the female. That does not fit their own individual established lore.
I want the OP to clarify what they are saying when they say, "with heels." Because some of it could be lost in translation.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

That's the problem. It is some of my business, as well as others. I play the game too, and should have a say as well. Again, not against male Viera, but I want them to fit the lore. That's not too much to ask.

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Yeah, but what part of the opinion about Male Viera as a playable race and having heels is contradicting the established lore?

Male Viera are rarely seen because they're secretive and stay in separate settlements to females and only contact females when required.

That is the extent of the lore as we know it. They have never appeared in a Final Fantasy title to date. Thus there are no obligations about their appearance.

Thus, if we infer that they are similar to female Viera, like the vast majority of species where Males and Females are fairly similar to one another, they would have a similar foot structure and thus would have similar reasoning for wearing stilettos (I.e. A more stable base to put their weight on, while not necessary, would provide additional comfort and balance)

Also, it's not like Male Viera wearing heels makes them into just Female Viera minus boobs. That's discounting the differences is build. Or are Male Roegadyn just simply Female Roegadyn minus boobs?

Not to mention other differences such as potentially unique ears. Males could have shorter ears or they could have additional bunny features (More than females and their bunny ears and different feet, males could have fur over parts of their body for example)

Honestly, given that 0 male Viera have ever been shown in a game, actually gives them complete freedom to design them, because whatever they do with their introduction into XIV will be setting up the canon for what Males look like.

Even their addition to the game is plausible, just because the males are usually secretive and keep to a solitary life, doesn't mean that it has to remain the case for every single one for ever. The game is rife with people who go against the norm for their species and try and do their own thing (Heck, that's literally the point of every single Beast Tribe we become friends with...)

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Originally Posted by TarynH

To me, all this thread says is, "We want male Viera, because female just aren't good enough." Just like every single one like it that's been posted.

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Maybe because that's the idea you have in your mind before you even click on the thread.

At no point has anyone devalued female Viera in this thread when asking for males. The only thing negative about female Viera is in their own design (Their more fanservice-y design... It would be akin to if every female Miqo'te was designed to be a dancing girl like what you find in Ul'dah and Costa del Sol)

People merely state that they would like male Viera. Since, for whatever reason, they either prefer male characters, or are just interested in having male Viera in the game.

Personally, I don't care that much about male Viera. I'd continue playing my cat gril waifu irregardless of their addition.

However, I'm not going to begrudge other people getting that particular race and gender combination based on illogical reasoning. Since, looking at the facts, there's no explicit reason why it would be impossible for them to exist in the game, nor is there any real precedent against what is suggested for them, such as heels (Which honestly just makes sense for that kind of foot structure)

You're pushing the wearing of Heels as a feminine thing. Which it is, in our society, where females are the ones who typically wear heels.

However, this isn't always the case. Skirts are traditionally female. Yet, in Scotland, Kilts are a very much masculine thing and has been for years.

Then of course, Viera are not humans. In their culture, heels would be no different from Sneakers in our culture. A unisex clothing item designed to help improve mobility while protecting the feet (Sometimes also ankles as for high-tops)

Trying to push against this notion under the guise of "Lore" or "Equality" is tantamount to racism against the Viera. This is before we've even seen IF they're even going to be added, let alone what their design will be.

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Originally Posted by TarynH

Again, I'm not taking offense to "heels" in particular. I don't care if a guy wears heels, or if a unicorn wears heels. What I want is for the OP to clarify what they are precisely asking for here. Are they asking for a completely different version of the Viera that can just wear heels. Or are they asking that the male version be like the female version. Yes, they posted old concept art, but didn't specify they wanted something like that. And the concept art they posted has them without heels.

Instead, what I'm getting is a lot of people completely misunderstanding my viewpoint here. Thinking I'm somehow against guys wearing female clothing. Not at all the case. I don't care if male Highlanders get string bikinis.

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hmmm okay emphasis mine:

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Originally Posted by TarynH

You can say I'm reaching on that, but I'm not wrong. OP is basically saying that female Viera just aren't good enough without males.

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I don't think that was missed. I think people are taking offense to your reach. The OP didn't need clarifying, you just dug your hole and are seeking a way out instead of just apologizing for going to far.