Escalating skill requirements & FFXIV future

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There are players who have trouble with the current difficulty and if it was lowered in difficulty, they would feel accomplished for finishing it. What people are saying when they don't want to keep this sort of person in mind is really that they aren't welcome in "our" game. I for one would like to keep people of this skill level around rather than driving them off, which will eventually lead to a dead game.

Making it more challenging isn't going to make them "git gud". It's going to make them find another game to play.

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There will always be someone who will find something to hard. Remember when Final steps of faith was too hard? When Shinryuu was too hard? Return of the bull was too hard? lo and behold: new patch, new "its too hard!" impasse. You only have 4 buttons to push in the 2nd half of this fight and someone made a thread about how hard it was. 4 buttons.

If there are adds on the field, kill them. If an NPC tells you to prioritize something else, focus that something else. If you haven't figured that out by level 70, everything will be too hard until the devs give you a insta ko button.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I think you just continue to ignore that everyone has their limit on ability. Unless someone outright says it's due to a disability, you always chalk it up to laziness. You complain that the optional content is nerfed when people aren't "prepared properly" in the MSQ. Who are the ones doing the nerfing? Why aren't you complaining about the developers making that decision? And if it's because the developers want content to be accessible, then that's a choice they've made for the game. It could lead to people who want things more hardcore leaving, but so could having the required content made harder. They decide where they want the balance to be.

I know that by far more people I know in this game just follow the MSQ and rarely step foot into optional content. Only SE knows the true numbers, but my guess is that those who find the harder content easy are in the minority, given the measures they've taken to address accessibility.

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You're kind of putting your foot in your mouth here.

If the dev team wanted this msq instance to be more difficult (which, again, I do not believe but let's humor you) that's a choice they've made for the game. They decided that was where the balance should be

Personally I feel like we are paying subs so we're entitled to give feedback even if it's kind of nonsense like most of this complaint thread but by your own logic you're just supposed to accept any decisions the devs make and move on.

I haven't read through this but if I'm the first one to say it I'm sorry - if you are having issues with that fight you have some very fundamental things wrong about your job. You should do some research.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Ceridwenae is bringing up a legitimate physical illness that they cannot control as one of the issues that they have had; an option to toggle battle efffects for enemies has already been suggested in another thread about one of the Alphascape fights, and it’s not something I have any issue with. They at least seem to be genuinely trying.

The OP has not brought up any such physical restriction, and instead comes off more as someone who is whining because something didn’t just roll over with the press of a single-button (much like the OP of the other thread complaining about this part of the MSQ). Having a physical disability is one thing, and it’s not something one can help; but crying for nerfs just because you don’t want to put in effort (like most cries for nerfs are on this forum) is not a valid excuse.

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(Before I get into it, I'm a she - because of how my brain works I have to give this information, despite the fact you're just doing the right thing with "they" and not assuming my gender. :D!)

I initially responded to this thread because I was a fairly solid GW2 player until earlier this year, and through that shared history I felt compelled to connect. I also feel, right now, compelled to tell the OP not to give up whatever the reason they had difficulty is. Mine isn't just epilepsy on its own, but I'll admit I blame most things on it since my brain is generally borked as a result of it. Still, everyone is different. Some people can do a thing, others can't. Some people are naturally inclined, some people are not. Health may not even have anything to do with it.

Regardless of any of that, whilst OP may not have elucidated in a fashion in which specific help can be given, they certainly won't if a lot of posts in this thread are anything to go by. Everyone, lots of you are really great at this game, super smart and helpful. Please don't drop that just because someone didn't give you enough information or you feel they came across in a less-than-stellar manner.

So I'll address the OP again, particularly if they haven't responded in the ten years it's taken me to write this:

OP, I'm British, so I advise keeping your chin up and having a nice cup of tea (or beverage of your choice) and a sit down. The people on this forum can and will help, if you wish it and come back and tell them your issues in detail. They do it all the time and they're really awesome at it! Except me, I haven't done the content yet, and I wouldn't ask me about this game unless you want sound fashion advice regarding colour blocking and avoiding insidious, pervasive thigh gap. Other than that, I can only wave some imaginary pom-poms for you and anyone else who's finding things difficult, and hope you come back and talk some more about how it's gone wrong for you, and that you then get someone shining a light for you. :)

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Originally Posted by Snapdragyn

I'm glad there are people who find every element of the game enjoyable. I'm glad there are people who will find the pieces I'm going to talk about easy & fun.

This post is not for them.

I've been playing MMOs since 2000. At this point in FFXIV, I don't see a future for myself in this game. The level of gameplay skill required JUST to get through the MSQ is fast approaching the limits of my capabilities.

Bard main, i350 - & I can NOT get through The Will of the Moon (just the part where I still get to play my own class, never mind the part where I would be forced to play as another).

At what point does a dev team recognize that continually boosting 'challenge' in _required_ content will eventually drive away part of their player base? I've already quit GW2 for exactly this issue - I couldn't complete the main story quests.

Please, leave the extreme difficulty for, you know - EXTREMES (& savages). Tone down the MSQ battles & job quest battles (I'm looking at you, RDM 60 battle) that end if multiple solo deaths with no way to get help when you need it. At the very least, USE the tool YOU built into the game, the Echo, & allow us to have it in these instanced fights!

P.S. You should also add an 'Other' option to the account cancellation process where we could enter the actual reasons instead of the ones you've selected for us in the preset list - in my case, 'game difficulty too hard to be fun'.

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Will of the moon is not even close to "hard". Heal yourself, put your NPC in focus target, kill his add first, don't place AOE's on the NPC's head and when the things spawn that you have to destroy, destroy the one where your NPC is standing in. The fight before is also pretty easy if you know what you have to focus: adds > boss!

Umm...the thing is, the OP is talking about a story trial you do solo, not any group content. The story stuff is one and done, and doesn't really matter if it's easy for people or not. I'm guessing the issue with the OP is that the end of the sadu part involves a lot of dodging and for whatever reason they just aren't good at it. Plus it has like five different phases. But again, this is a single fight that is one and done, and not really anything important to the game since it doesn't affect anything else. Depending on what the OP does in the game, it may really be an issue; if all they do is play for the story and do solo content otherwise, it can be a gate for them which they don't need.

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another kind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience. The game actually works as it is now, with people able to do the level of difficult content they choose freely. It's pretty easy to wreck this, because hard content in this game can ramp up in difficulty exponentially due to the 8 man party mechanic structure. So cut people some slack; you definitely will lose a lot more than you gain by asking for harder content forced on everyone.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There are players who have trouble with the current difficulty and if it was lowered in difficulty, they would feel accomplished for finishing it.

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Wouldn't they feel much more accomplished if they managed to beat a fight they have difficulty with, rather than waiting it out to beat it once it's nerfed so they manage to do it through no extra effort of their own?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Umm...the thing is, the OP is talking about a story trial you do solo, not any group content. The story stuff is one and done, and doesn't really matter if it's easy for people or not. I'm guessing the issue with the OP is that the end of the sadu part involves a lot of dodging and for whatever reason they just aren't good at it. Plus it has like five different phases. But again, this is a single fight that is one and done, and not really anything important to the game since it doesn't affect anything else. Depending on what the OP does in the game, it may really be an issue; if all they do is play for the story and do solo content otherwise, it can be a gate for them which they don't need.

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another gind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience.

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There is still nothing hard.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Telling us you're a MMO player since 2000 and not being able to clear a MSQ instance in FFXIV.

Hmmm...

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QFMFT!!!!!! LOL LOVE THIS. People need to STOP telling us your supposed playtime it does NOTHING FOR YOU. OP I am not the one to say the game needs to be harder or easier mostly.. cause I keep seeing people die to shit on a normal bases so I gave up on harder content. Or things like Rath happen and NOONE I met uses the normal strat and cheese it anyway cause it's too hard. I will say tho asking for nerfs isn't goign to make that better. I don't want to say try harder - fuck git gud... DARK SOULS ISN'T HARD!!! you want hard. Go play the FIRST version of Devil May Cry 3!! I WILLL NEVER LET THIS GO!- but I do want to say don't give up I died 3 times and one of the mbeing that stupid glitch in the sceond fight where he doesn't do his super move and is unkillable at 1%. If alot of these freaking noobs can get to endgame and die to orange aoe markers that take an hour to pop.. then someone like you who found the forums should be able to do it no problem. Just be like older games and try again. You got this.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Umm...the thing is, the OP is talking about a story trial you do solo, not any group content. The story stuff is one and done, and doesn't really matter if it's easy for people or not. I'm guessing the issue with the OP is that the end of the sadu part involves a lot of dodging and for whatever reason they just aren't good at it. Plus it has like five different phases. But again, this is a single fight that is one and done, and not really anything important to the game since it doesn't affect anything else. Depending on what the OP does in the game, it may really be an issue; if all they do is play for the story and do solo content otherwise, it can be a gate for them which they don't need.

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons. Do you know how you hate Pagos? That's how people can feel when forced to do hard content, because Pagos is just another gind of hard difficulty centered around long-term patience.

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I know you have some weird vendetta with raids but a person should be able to perform basic (b a s i c) rotations and evasion by level 70. You do not need purple parses to clear this.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I think you just continue to ignore that everyone has their limit on ability. Unless someone outright says it's due to a disability, you always chalk it up to laziness. You complain that the optional content is nerfed when people aren't "prepared properly" in the MSQ. Who are the ones doing the nerfing? Why aren't you complaining about the developers making that decision? And if it's because the developers want content to be accessible, then that's a choice they've made for the game. It could lead to people who want things more hardcore leaving, but so could having the required content made harder. They decide where they want the balance to be.

I know that by far more people I know in this game just follow the MSQ and rarely step foot into optional content. Only SE knows the true numbers, but my guess is that those who find the harder content easy are in the minority, given the measures they've taken to address accessibility.

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I think you ignored the context of the opening post. There was no disability listed in that post. There was no limitation of ability listed in that post.

The optional content gets nerfed or made easier in future installments (e.g., degradation of difficulty from Midas Savage to Creator to Deltascape/Sigmascape) because players woefully unprepared for it venture into it thinking “it won’t be so bad”, and then complain when it is absolutely nothing like the majority of the game. This isn’t just Savages and Extremes either, but 8-man normal mode raids, trials, and 24-man alliance raids.

There hasn’t been an alliance raid since Weeping City was released that didn’t have a thread or two made complaining about how “hard” it was and how it was “too demanding” on players, and that the developers should nerf the content. People also complained about MSQ trials (Final Steps, Royal Menagerie, and Castrum Fluminis). And now people have shifted to saying the MSQ solo instances are “too demanding”.

Nowhere in any of these threads were people listing valid reasons beyond their control (e.g., physical disabilities). Just like there is no mention of one by the OP of this thread (or the other thread about this specific instance).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Also, the constant fetishization of difficulty in this game is getting old. I don't mean in story trials, but I'm getting tired of the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its hard, or that players need to be forced to do harder content for undefined reasons.

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It’s also getting really old seeing people say that everything in this game should be easy because it’s a “game catered to casual players”. I’m getting tired of seeing the same old people thinking the only way this game is meaningful is if its easy, or that players need to have content handed to them for undefined reasons.

I’m well aware of them talking about an MSQ trial—two-parter or not, none of these have ever been difficult to the point where developers have decided to nerf them, or have outright admitted that they are overtuned. Even when I was brand new and leveling, I never found any of the MSQ instances hard, and I was a god-awful player back then (because I didn’t know any better). I highly doubt that they see this one as overtuned. It seems that it was balanced fairly enough in their eyes; otherwise, they would have made adjustments. You already get Echo upon failing, and you always have a regen tick buff on your character. Both of those make it easy enough to brute force your way through things; if you still cannot do that with 5x Echo, then you really need to step back and look at how you are personally performing.

At level 70, you’re expected to know your rotation and how to dodge AOEs. Those are not difficult skills to acquire for the majority of players. If you do not know them, then I would suggest you research your rotation and practice dodging more harmless AOEs. Instead of just saying “this should be made easier”.