What if we got the Sub-Job System in FFXIV?

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What if we got the Sub-Job System in FFXIV?

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Then everybody is going to have to level NIN, RDMs are going to have to level DRK, and SMNs are going to have to level WHM.

/s

(only just a little)

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Originally Posted by Ameela

It'd also mean White Mage is the only sub job worth taking on any healer so what's the point?

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Could you imagine whm/sch though :3

Sub jobs are a nice idea in concept but they are very hard to implement properly in an MMO, especially when the balancing is already quite fickle.

I too would like to see more character growth, but at the end of the day its not that kind of game and ultimately would require too much rework, it would also be nigh impossible to balance, even in FFXI, the term "balance" is laughable, people already complain about the attitude towards the meta comp, imagine that but also taking into account a sub job.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

With the fact that the cross-role skills are going to give us all 10... why not with 5.0 shift the system to something tried and true within the Final Fantasy universe?

I get that there would be adjustments, and I also don't agree that the cross-class system is like the sub job system.

It's a lot to ask, but I'd love to know your thoughts? I think there will easily be a "preferred" sub job for each job or role... But we have that now with cross role, etc... Having been playing Octopath Traveler, I just love the sub job system...

Thoughts?

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It's a bad idea. FFXIV's content is designed around having all the jobs being equal. All DPS jobs do about the same damage, all tanks have the same number of enmity skills, all healers have the same healing kit.

You wouldn't be able to put in a subjob and have it not become another meta pushed by trolls.

The ideal thing is to change 5.0's content in a way that there is no BiS build, only a preferred party arrangement at a per-fight level. The only way that happens is by not outright stating there is an ideal configuration. eg, think about the tower in FF6 where you can only use magic. So if you had a party with two Melee's, pretty much everything has to be done by the healer. So that would be a piece of content where only RDM, BLM and SMN would be useful in. As there is no non-magic based healer, there is no way to do the opposite at present. Likewise a DRK or PPLD tank would kinda be stuck as they would only end up with one useable skill, and WAR would have none.

Essentially, the game, at present, doesn't support any kind of specialization, because the content is designed so all players are equal in their roles. To add a specialization would also require content where that specialization and ONLY that specialization is required. If that specialization is useless outside that one piece of content, good luck getting people to have it. Then there is also the complication with the duty finder, where if content requires a specialization, then there will be no way of requiring it, thus ensuring a failure condition where players won't play the content without the specialization being present. Or the content becomes "job specific" rather than any role. eg Only casters can queue for the Cultists Tower.



Hence FFXIV will not be able to have something like this without throwing out the current system.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

Perhaps, but the cross class system was pretty weak, when sub jobs have many different ways to be implanted throughout history. We shouldn't be afraid of the system even if a meta would form... the cross class system was week, cross role system too, so why not have a system that is very final fantasy?

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You seem to be conflating Final Fantasy XI for Final Fantasy in general. FFXI is the only time the series has had a subjob system, while systems where you choose specific skills to add from other jobs you've leveled are the norm. This is how it worked in FF5 as well as FF Tactics, and while the abilities were not "cross-class" per se it is also similar to FF9. FFX and the original version of FFXII didn't have classes, but you gained class abilities individually. Espers in FF6 essentially gave you "cross-class" spells, and materia and junctions in 7 and 8 were all about picking whatever abilities you wanted. Final Fantasy has a rich history of allowing you to choose from a list of earned abilities, and exactly one game where you were defined by a combination of two jobs.

I would consider the Tactics system to be subjob. It wouldn't work in an MMO, but you still took a bunch of skills from one class, in addition to picking up a couple more (few?) from others. That first option was the sub-class.

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Originally Posted by Zsolen

I would consider the Tactics system to be subjob. It wouldn't work in an MMO, but you still took a bunch of skills from one class, in addition to picking up a couple more (few?) from others. That first option was the sub-class.

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That was the cross-class system pre-SB. It worked for a little bit, but it was much worse with that "illusion of choice" problem than the current role system.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

How would it even work in this game?
A lot of jobs' kits already overlap with each other and since this game wasn't designed with sub jobs in mind it'd probably be way too overpowered (imagine a SCH that also has access to a WHM's kit) or it'd just be so limitted it'd be another form of the cross-class/role skill system.

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I think that with 5.0 we will see more reworking of the systems as a whole, as to how it would work, I say that the sub-job is half the level of the main job. That or, you pick a sub job and you get a stat boost, trait boost, and a set of skills that are pre-determined.
It's a classic system, we've toyed around with a few others, just thinking it's about time.

Imo, they already have hard enough time balancing the very basics of a mmo for job/att stats. Half of these cross class skills perhaps imo if was taken out it wouldn't even matter for overall balance of the game people would adjust and move on in couple days. If it was like ffxi like then it would matter more, because it isn't just a ability you use it also would need to account for traits/spells/att stats ECT.

I'm not against this though I would like more but in current state of the game isnt going to happen unless allot of core game change happen to support this. /Shrugs

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

I think that with 5.0 we will see more reworking of the systems as a whole, as to how it would work, I say that the sub-job is half the level of the main job. That or, you pick a sub job and you get a stat boost, trait boost, and a set of skills that are pre-determined.
It's a classic system, we've toyed around with a few others, just thinking it's about time.

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The last thing this game needs is another overhaul to make running old content even more miserable.