DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

Is 4k low? Yes. Do this make the player garbage "tier"? First "tier" does not exist in this game, players or the community makes it up. 4k dps means nothing until you link it with something in game:
1. will I take him for a sub position of my statics? No.
2. would I like to meet and play with him again in PF content like dog farm? No. So I blist him later
3. will I blame and shame him for the low dps during the instance? No. I'd get banned for that.
4. will I quit that instance because this low dps? Depends, for PF raid content, sure. For random DF fight of tomes or exp. lol why borther, just blist him later.

So it all ups to you or each individual player, "tier" doesn't exist. It's not even worth to bring it up to be honest.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Wow...you seriously don't know how?

Yeah..I'm just gonna sit back and watch you figure that one out.

Last thing I want to do is give you guys more ammo.

*Moves on*


EDIT: OK ill give you a hint. Tanks rely on this very heavily.....at least they should.

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Don't need a parser to read the condescending smugness here, wowie. You're also very wrong, which makes it that much funnier. But don't worry, I'll sit back and let you figure out why you're wrong. Here's a hint: Diversion, shadewalker, smokescreen, tactician, refresh, purification, merciful eyes, and lucid dreaming.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I am not sure if you raid or not, but if you don't, then this really wasn't posed towards you. The thread is aimed specifically at Savage raiding... I learned this lesson the hard way, but one should not be raiding at all if they are learning how to play their DPS job.

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I'm replying to the "it could be applied to normal fights as well" part. I do normal raids on SAM for practice. My SAM's ilvl is somewhere in the 330s with a i310 weapon. It's not my main and I doubt I'm up there in DPS. But I know mechanics. Should I stick to training dummies? No. The only way to learn how to fight better is to fight, in game or IRL.

Should I be doing savage content? Come on, nobody does a smoker fight then jumps straight to pro. Does 4K dps make us garbage? I see guys in the gym who can't even snap their punches. Calling them in garbage tier would be messed up because they showed up to practice, to improve, and they're putting their time in. In game it's no different. We're all at different levels of progression. I get what you mean by some players need to work on their DPS but I don't see how labels are helpful or anything these players should mind in the first place. Also as HyoMin pointed out, just the numbers aren't a good premise. There's other factors that should also be considered.

People sling around a number like 8k (which btw the absolute top for kefka is 7k) but fail to mention that the people with that number are being supported by the whole party specifically to increase that one player for giggles/bragging/butmuhparse. Then later with more gear and practice the numbers creep up a little.

If you look at the party statistics they often have the optimal buffers and the other dps are low in numbers.
For example. Number 100 is 6.3k atm and in their party are 2 DPS who do 4.1k, out of thousands of parses which beat everyone here; they (2 'support' dps) parsed 4k and as a team unit beating the fight in 6:32mins.

In raid, the number of your team mate is your number too.

Outside of raiding, if someone is hitting lower than their (maxHP / 10) - they're bad or just plain lazy. This is just personal opinion, but I feel it's somewhat fair to the "average" player.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Uhm, Kaiva isn’t calling anyone garbage-tier. However, if you are in a piece of content (such as V8S) doing 4,000 DPS, then yeah, there is a huge problem there. As I said in my post above, there are a lot of different things to consider when you look at a DPS amount (gear, job, party comp, kill time, deaths, etc.). To just look at a number without context is unfair, and a very poor analysis.

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Just saying it wouldn't bother me to be called that, can't help it, I got to start somewhere. But it'd probably bother the person who uses such labels because they'll end up playing with/ putting up with others who don't measure up, just aren't good enough yet. Who wants to stress over that? I don't.

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Originally Posted by Niqote

-hey parsed 4k and as a team unit beating the fight in 6:32mins-

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Uh, no. They did not parse 4k as team unit, they parsed 32,588 DPS as team unit. What's happening here is 2 below average DPS players were getting carried by 2 extremely good DPS players, and I'm pretty sure they realized that too which is why both of them went with support-oriented DPS. Had the BLM done 500 DPS less (which still put them at around 5,800 still above average), same as DRG (which put them at around 5k DPS), then suddenly enrage will become an issue.

Now imagine what would happen if all DPS parse 4k. Do you think they will be able to beat that fight, let alone at 6:32 mins?

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Originally Posted by Niqote

People sling around a number like 8k (which btw the absolute top for kefka is 7k) but fail to mention that the people with that number are being supported by the whole party specifically to increase that one player for giggles/bragging/butmuhparse. Then later with more gear and practice the numbers creep up a little.

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Fun fact—the highest current parse for Phantom Train is a SMN at 9,383 DPS. To be fair, SMNs can already parse high on that fight because of padding on the adds...and this particular SMN had 19 Balances on his log. The second highest DPS was a BRD at 4,667 DPS. An utterly ridiculous pad for that SMN.

This just goes back to what I said in my first post in this thread—considering the context behind the number. It’s my personal opinion, but a parse like this is immediately invalidated the minute I see the huge discrepancy between the DPS, and the sheer amount of padding the SMN got. That doesn’t speak of a player’s skill to me; it tells me they were padded. And I came to that opinion from just looking at the context surrounding the number—something that is being largely ignored in the opening post of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Jellybums

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Does it make us garbage? Now that's the prime question that I have posed here that I've gotten a few answers for. Too many people are centering on the idea that I'm personally saying that 4K = garbage. I have not said that this is my opinion, and I said as much in my original post. I asked what other players think of the comment. I agreed with certain aspects of the comment, yes, when taken at face value, but I have not in any way said that 4k DPS are trash. I do stand by my opinion that if you're learning a DPS job, you shouldn't really be jumping into Savage. But again, the thread title is something I found interesting and made a thread about.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

blurg

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...you're joking, right? There's a lot of "condescending smugness" going on here, and I'm not looking at them.

To be honest, I even kind of agree. It's very easy to spot the difference between weak links among DPS and a good DPS who uses their enmity dump. You don't really need a parser to tell you if someone is doing "garbage" level damage. No, you can't spot who might be lagging a bit or more subtle differences, but when a boss is taking a while to kill or something seems off, it doesn't exactly take a discerning eye to spot who's bringing the group down, which I'm inclined to believe is what the other poster meant.

But if your working definition of "garbage" is 4 - 5k in a Savage setting, then yes, it won't be so easy to see. It all depends on what your standard is, and there's not much else to it. That won't stop the meaningless point scoring, though.