A design philosophy flaw. Misunderstanding what is fun and reward structure.

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Originally Posted by NekoNova

Diadem was an attempt at different content, sadly not the content that was wanted or appreciated by most people..

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It was not appreciated by most the first time it was introduced, or the second time, and now the third time as well.

Why they insist on this type of content is beyond me.

They've had 17 months to get this right. We've lost other content opportunities because they were working on this. And this is the result we get.

What is fun for you may not be for someone else, and what you don't find rewarding may be amazing to them. Personally I enjoyed my time in Eureka last night for the time I spent there, but I didn't specifically enjoy it just for the treasure rewards (I did enjoy getting as many crystals as I did in one run, though...).

What I enjoyed was the way you could slip in and out of groups to tackle groups of mobs, adjusting the types and levels you took on as the party changed. I liked the ease of being in that kind of community where people weren't aggressively fighting to claim mobs to kill but you still naturally could hop in and help the players around you and get some kind of reward even if you're not in their group. I enjoyed going solo and having to carefully pick my route, which mobs I wanted to fight and which I did not.

Ultimately how successful this content will be in the game will be judged by its longevity, but not everyone has the same taste for fun or rewards and it is utterly impossible to create a singular piece of content that will satisfy everyone.

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Originally Posted by Shihen

The problem is not the time the grind requires, it is the boring nature of the grind itself. The people working on this game are where they are because they make these situations fun for a living, and are good doing that. For the vast majority of the playerbase, this is not fun. It is Staying Awake (Savage). It is being trashed, and rightly so, because this is not what you expect when a team of talented people is given over a year and a half to create something fun.

No one likes getting upset at the people behind the game they love, but it needs to happen for a change to be made.

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And that is a really valid concern, one I can, and do, share. I think, as you do, that it could be better, and many people here and there came up with wonderful ideas for Eureka. My point with Eureka, though, wasn't "Devs are doing great", they aren't. They are completely out regarding what the community wants, and although I choose to see Eureka as a "social bonding" instance as much as a PvE one, and therefore, I like it, it's still rather bad.

But I'm kinda bored by people going all "Everyone who goes into Eureka is stupid and is a cancer to this community"... How entitled do you have to be to think you can tell people what they like ? That's got nothing to do with the thread in itself, it just tilted me quite a bit, right there...

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

I don't play on JAP. Somebody said the exact opposite of what you said.

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"somebody" isn't very specific. That somebody could have met a random person who liked it. Guess what, they exist in NA too.
There are people in all regions that do like Eureka. There are people that don't but still do it because they want the rewards. There are then people t hat don't like it and have given up on it. The question is about the overall population, and there isn't much of a way to gauge that except via things like reddit or forums.

So here's something specific to look at:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...3%82%AB/page31

That's the Eureka JP feedback thread. Use google translate and try your best to interpret.
The first few pages are mostly mixed. Some people like it, some people don't like it, some people are indifferent about it.

Then there are 20 or so pages are almost entirely people who dislike it. It's like 80% negative.

Then around page 29 it dies down a bit. I'm guessing that as more people are discovering the NMs, the negativity is swinging down slightly.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You don't get a chain if the mobs are below your level solo, I'm sure it's the same with parties.

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Per patch notes, chain only increases drop rate and quantity. My statement was to compare lvl 20 mobs that may take 1 min to kill in a group of 8~10 per min or you be a one player black death on low level mobs and AoE "x" number of mobs per min which is more proc chances.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

The JAP community is actually super happy with Eureka. And they are the only important part to SE.
US/EU is just extra cash milking, they aren't going to change anything for us.

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Where did you get your false info from? Fox News? The JPN community is most certainly not happy with Eureka.

EDIT: Didn't read beyond first page, but just saw that you said a random person told you this. You should also know a FFXI fan told me in-game that FFXI fans love, but I know that most do not. There's always going to be players that like and dislike a new piece of content, even within the same region or same background. So one person speaking for others does not make it true, especially if they're biased. The vast majority dislike.

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Originally Posted by Mahrze

Per patch notes, chain only increases drop rate and quantity. My statement was to compare lvl 20 mobs that may take 1 min to kill in a group of 8~10 per min or you be a one player black death on low level mobs and AoE "x" number of mobs per min which is more proc chances.

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That chain is called Exp chain.

From the patch notes:
"Upon defeating an enemy, players will have a limited window in which they may attempt to defeat another. If successful, they will initiate an EXP chain."
"Defeating subsequent enemies while an EXP chain is active will earn additional elemental EXP. This will also increase the drop rate and quantity of rewards."

So the exp chain happens to also increase drop rates and quantities.

And in red it also says: "EXP chains cannot be initiated or extended by defeating enemies whose elemental level is lower than your own."

A level 20 attacking a monster < 20 will not get a chain. Thus it'll never be more efficient for them to farm lower level mobs for crystals.

And I can attest to that. While I was level 5 helping a group of level 1-2, while attacking level 3 & 4 monsters, I did not receive any chains, and because of it I was not receiving any crystals.

There are only 2 currently known incentives for a level 20 to go attack lower level mobs
1) they're in a party with lower level people, taking on mobs with levels somewhere in between, to help such people get both exp and crystals, just to be nice.
2) they're trying to spawn a Notorious Monster fate (which has sync so high level people will get rewards)

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Originally Posted by Squintina

The question is about the overall population, and there isn't much of a way to gauge that except via things like reddit or forums.

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This content isn't even fully figured out yet and there is no hard data yet on its complete structure and all spawn conditions. I'm sorry but too many ppl had expectations extremely high and then expected to roll through it like previous relic content with straight forward hand holding quests.

First impressions and all the complaints mean nothing when players go into new content that is less than 48hrs old, play 30mins to 3hrs, and mindlessly kill mobs without even trying to figure out the structure or its conditions.

There is actually a Reddit post of ppl actually trying to figure out all the NM conditions. That is actually figuring out the system to maximize the content.

Don't want to figure it out? Then wait, there will be plenty of guides for you to use from other ppl's efforts. Until then, you can't honestly judge the book from its cover. It is honestly reminding of spoiled players that never actually track and look for hunts legitimately. They just wait for someone else to do all the effort so they can just show up and be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

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I think he's trying to speculate on wether it would be more efficient to kill 1 high level mob with chains, or much more lower level mobs without chain.

I don't think we have the data to come to a conclusion about that yet.

Some data from today.

Time inside: 2hrs
NMs Spawned and Killed: 8
Lvls gained: 3 (lvl4 to lvl7)
Protean Crystals gained from converting: 306
Lockboxes obtained: 68

The majority of the instance helped spawn each NM. Teamwork. We went in order by the Elemental lvl of NMs. It was fun, it was fast paced, and NMs are the content period. They are better than S Ranks by far.