The problem with healing

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm not saying the game has no place for an edgy healer. Some of the healing sets out there are far from looking like it was made in the clouds, and are very dark. I really like the idea of this type of dark healer taking HP and buffs from their enemies and transferring it to themselves and their comrades, along with a similar concept when they cleanse debuffs (take from party member and give it to the mob).

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This would be an interesting concept, though potentially difficult to balance within the structure of XIV's healing.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

What's so bad about having a priestly job?

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Priest powers come directly from the gods. If he heals, it's God's blessing. If he does damage, it's God's wrath. Simple like that.

But the source of Conjurer's powers are the elementals, wich mantains a relation that, IMO, is close to what Summoners have with EGIs (without actually summoning them). And White Magick is a technique for manipulating Aether created by Amdapor's magi to manipulate Aether. His powers weren't bestowed upon White Mages directly from The Twelve.

I see no sense on White Mage being a priest.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

They traditionally (and in a somewhat romantic sense) represent the same values a healer does, so it kinda makes sense to me that the two are meshed together at times.

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Agreed. And that's why 534/10 games name its healer as "Priest".

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

It's not even as if ALL healers are priestly.

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Agreed again. Healers don't need to be priests. They even don't need to be good, since a healer can heal other people for selfish reasons.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Scholars are, well, just what the name says, and Astrologians are something else as well. If you don't like the theme, maybe play one of those if your dislike is bad enough.

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I like the White Mage's lore. I like the idea of "mage that heals".

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

It's also not as if there aren't any bases for the White Mage being a mage, either. We get those skills from Conjury, and from the later job quests.

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There are lore base to sustain that White Mage is a mage. A mage who use a magick technique that was created to counter Shantotto's technique.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Yes, White Mages are partially responsible for the 6th Umbral Era. HOWEVER, while it is true they corrupted white magic for their own gains, they mostly used it to defend themselves, to breath live into inanimate objects. They didn't corrupt it in the sense of using it for something bad. Even the Voidsent in Lost City aren't there because White Mages summoned them. They got summoned by Black Mages, and the caught and thus neutralized by the Amdapori.

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Ultimately, the 6th Umbral Calamity was caused by White Mages. Yes, White Magic was created to be a counter for Black Magic. But it is

But the abusive use of the Aether angered the Elementals and their response was the Great Flood. That's why White Magic was outlawed for who isn't Padjal (but not conjury).

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Also, did you even play 4.0 yet? Because there IS a scene where you are using healing spells if you go into that cutscene as a healer. You can even reproduce it in the inn. So you stating we never get to heal in cutscenes (outside job quests, I might add, because there are ALSO cutscenes where you heal in those; or DPS) either means you've never seen that scene while on a healer job, or you aren't far enough into the story.

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I stated that I didn't[*]SAW[*] any cutscene outside the job quests where the fact the WoL is a healer were important. If I don't saw, it don't means that it didn't exist. FYI, I stopped at 3.2 (stopped to level an alt to retake the MSQ in the healer's place).

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

That scene with Haurchefant caused an outrage with many healers, which is likely one of the reasons that other scene was included into 4.0. Haurchefant could either be explained away by saying the wound was lethal anyway (and as a medic you can judge if a wound is or not), or you were too exhausted by the battles before. It is still very jarring, nobody will argue that away, though...

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That outrage can explain why they added some interaction only on 4.0. Well, better late than never.

But the infuriating part is that the WoL done nothing. Not even tried to see if he can do something about the wound. If he was too tired, but tried anyway (and failed due to lack of MP) or said that the wound is so severe that even his best healing spells isn't enough to prevent his death), that was excusable. But he just stood there with a poker face. Maybe the development team slightly forgot that there could be healers doing the MSQ?

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Originally Posted by Tridus

They really did go hog wild on this lately and it doesn't fit the lore that well, since nearly every White Mage is a Padjal, not a priest.

White Magic isn't illegal. The rulers of Gridania are White Mages.

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Is legal for them because they're Padjals (the eldest Padjal). I understood that if you aren't a Padjal, White Magic is not for you. But, for some reason, everyone turns a blind eye when the WoL messes up with forbidden magic (be it black or white) or helps forming a militia (hello Crystal Braves o/).

But it isn't clear for me (yet) who enforces the law who forbid black and white magic. It is the Twelveshood? It is the Padjals (and thus gridanian government)? Are the elementals itself (and thus, again, gridanian government)?

And why the WoL didn't gone to Amdapor Keep to grab his soul stone or it isn't part of any WHM job quest up to level 60?

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Originally Posted by Tridus

The Elementals of the Twelveswood just decide who is allowed to be one and that's usually Padjal (and us, because we're special). Black Magic is kinda sorta illegal but you can see how well that's enforced in the BLM job quests.

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Not gone too far on BLM quests (up until 35'ish quest), but interested on seeing more of that. When I grab level 70 on WHM and RDM, I'll level the BLM.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

This bugged the hell out of me. There's so many of them where people are running around dying and need a healer and the WoL just stands there like a chump, right after using LB3 and bringing up an entire raid team from the brink of death! It was nice when they acknowedged that healers do exist in Stormblood's MSQ. The dichotomy between death and "death" is an RPG staple though, that isn't going anywhere.

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At least on table RPGs I played (D&D and WoD), it have a KO mechanic, where the player character can actually die. It could be more explored, saying, for example, what is the limit of the healing spells. For example, "cure is useless against a wound more severe than a scratch", "raise heals some letal wounds, but with some limit (what can explain the Brink of Death debuff).

So, something like White Magic being equally a force usable for wrong, with people tapping into their very souls for inherently short-lived conquest or idealistic counter-conquest, and that even curative magics are just as equally part of an ever-escalating arms war, as per reference in the 1.x WHM storylines?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Yes, but it is also in a Dark Knight's nature to kill. It's a little easier to paint a job as an anti-hero when they seek blood justice. Healers in the typical FF lore, especially WHMs are not violent in nature. However, many have been adventurous; seeking thrills to take them away from their strict disciplines.

I don't feel that SCHs and ASTs share the tree-hugging mentality/theme of WHMs. They may not bring a necromancer type edginess to the healer role, but they are each certainly unique in terms of questlines, attire, lore, and mentality. SCH and AST even bring unique mechanics with their fairy and cards respectively.

I'm not saying the game has no place for an edgy healer. Some of the healing sets out there are far from looking like it was made in the clouds, and are very dark. I really like the idea of this type of dark healer taking HP and buffs from their enemies and transferring it to themselves and their comrades, along with a similar concept when they cleanse debuffs (take from party member and give it to the mob).

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Healing by doing damage is definitely something other MMOs offer, which of course potentially fits in with the OP's request for darker themes as well as the general demand for healer dps.

I don't care about edginess as a healer but I do worry that they basically made AST as a "half-WHM"/"half-SCH" with buff cards. SE will need to come up with some different themes/mechanics if they add a new healer job in 5.0 to avoid redundancy.

To avoid imbalance there would need to be some limitation on the duration or effectiveness of a needs-to-dps-to-heal job, maybe something like a heat gauge for Machinists or a need to flip from one resource to another like BLM. This need to ramp up and cool-down would provide a different kind of challenge for healers whether it is done up in goth/grim themes or in fluffy puppy rainbow power.