"Casual" content thoughts

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Why did you choose portal instead of Dark Souls, the new Doom, or Planetside 2?

That's a rhetorical question.

A game cannot cater to everyone, a game that tries to do this is boring to all. You select a baseline difficulty and go from there. I have friends from Everquest, keyboard turners and ability clickers who would NOT be able to do the solo Duties in class/job or main scenario quests. I veer them away from FFXIV due to this. They would not, and COULD not ever enjoy the majority of the game due to their limitations.

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Easy is indeed a completely impossible thing to define, but I disagree that without a literal physical or mental handicap people are "incapable" of getting good at this game or any game. It's all a matter of practice and the will to improve and not giving up.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Easy is indeed a completely impossible thing to define, but I disagree that without a literal physical or mental handicap people are "incapable" of getting good at this game or any game. It's all a matter of practice and the will to improve and not giving up.

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What do you do with someone who can't pass the first solo duty? Level is scaled, they cannot outlevel or outgear it. You cannot join them to give a boost. There's only two things you can do. One is to login their character and do it for them. The other is to inform them that the game just isn't for them.

I have one friend who likely falls into that category. They've been in MMOs for 15 years. If they haven't 'gotten it' by now. They're not going to. No handicap either.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Then comes the next part: Reaction to such players. Some people will explain very neutrally how some mechs work in RM. Of course, we can only hope the other players learn from that attentively and thus make RM easier or...you can get this:

"How do you not what X mech works by now? No one should have to tell you! You're a jump pot user or something?"

Which leads to

"Stfu, elitist pig. I don't play this game every single day like a no lifer"

Which leads to one more try, wipe and disband.

Honestly, I personally felt like the difficulty of RM simply lied in the patience of players: those who wanted to teach and those who would listen. Its what made any RM run either "easy" or "hard".

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Which is why I think there should be new Hall of Novice lessons that go over the various markers.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

What do you do with someone who can't pass the first solo duty? Level is scaled, they cannot outlevel or outgear it. You cannot join them to give a boost. There's only two things you can do. One is to login their character and do it for them. The other is to inform them that the game just isn't for them.

I have one friend who likely falls into that category. They've been in MMOs for 15 years. If they haven't 'gotten it' by now. They're not going to. No handicap either.

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Never met anyone like that but it really sounds like they indeed have some kind of handicap if they've been in MMOs for 15 years and can't adapt to an MMO which isn't much different from the standard formula.

FFXIV is as standard as they come, I sense that something isn't right with your story.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

Never met anyone like that but it really sounds like they indeed have some kind of handicap if they've been in MMOs for 15 years and can't adapt to an MMO which isn't much different from the standard formula.

FFXIV is as standard as they come, I sense that something isn't right with your story.

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Standard compared to what?

I did Heroic and Mythical raids in WoW: Legion and none of that even compared to some of the PUG content in FFXIV. EQ2's most complex group mechanic was a debuff that silenced the healer and had to be taken off a mage. The high end dungeons in RIFT had telegraphs comparable to FFXIV's level 30 dungeons. ESO has some interesting mechanics, none of which are punishing like they are here, and I've been able to complete all of them on Vet, even with a Nightblade Healer (a non-standard healing build).

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Originally Posted by Sylvinia

Never met anyone like that but it really sounds like they indeed have some kind of handicap if they've been in MMOs for 15 years and can't adapt to an MMO which isn't much different from the standard formula.

FFXIV is as standard as they come, I sense that something isn't right with your story.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Standard compared to what?

I did Heroic and Mythical raids in WoW: Legion and none of that even compared to some of the PUG content in FFXIV. EQ2's most complex group mechanic was a debuff that silenced the healer and had to be taken off a mage. The high end dungeons in RIFT had telegraphs comparable to FFXIV's level 30 dungeons. ESO has some interesting mechanics, none of which are punishing like they are here, and I've been able to complete all of them on Vet, even with a Nightblade Healer (a non-standard healing build).

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Easy or Hard?
That varies from player to player with or without handicaps.

Skill?
There are different kinds. Reflex, Cerebral, Memorization, Number crunching.

You may excel at all, a few, or suck at all of them.

The difference between this mmo and most other besides their older sister.

Is that most mmos these days allow you to:

Reach level cap and progress the story entirely solo,it's usually not difficult at all and if there is anything requiring to group to advance the story it is extremely simple and a rare occurence.

This is not a diss to other mmos or saying they have no hard content. I have played a good amount. EQ2, Swtor, ESO, GW2, Black Desert, Tera, Warframe, and a few others. FFXI and XIV are one of the few mmos riddled with hundreds of rights of passages, and a strong focus on multiplayer storywise even if XIV has less focus on multiplayer than it's older sister did.

It's a blessing for me personally to play the FF mmos. I like the rights of passage and a focus on wanting players to group up for some story stuff. But there are a few occasions in both FF mmos where I am like, this is a bit too hard for story content. I get a bit frustrated, but always manage to persevere and win. But I have seen other players in both games just hit a wall, and question whether to stop playing or not.

One difference between the FF mmos and offline ones. Are that there is no time gating or level gating in the offline ones. So regardless of how difficult, you can outlevel or outgear anything as soon as possible. In the mmos you have to wait a bit for that to happen ranging anywhere from one patch to longer.

One thing you have no control over is in a multiplayer requirement, you need people, no people equal you don't progress the main story, even if you were the best XIV player in the world. And if you are one of the most skillfully challenged, well the multiplayer aspect might frustrate you a bit more, as parties disband for one-two deaths, less than optimal rotations, or any other act of god.

That part I didn't get for awhile coming from an old school mmo. Even with experience loss or deleveling, minus COP, players even in pugs would try over and over with little drama and usually would win. The answer was time, time is more important than any penalty an mmo could enforce to this era of mmos.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Standard compared to what?

I did Heroic and Mythical raids in WoW: Legion and none of that even compared to some of the PUG content in FFXIV. EQ2's most complex group mechanic was a debuff that silenced the healer and had to be taken off a mage. The high end dungeons in RIFT had telegraphs comparable to FFXIV's level 30 dungeons. ESO has some interesting mechanics, none of which are punishing like they are here, and I've been able to complete all of them on Vet, even with a Nightblade Healer (a non-standard healing build).

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I havent even done mythic raiding in WoW only mythic + dungeons but having played both I can tell you that the pug content in FFXIV isnt that much different from LFR raids in wow. I don't see where you're getting this from.

Also being able to complete the hardest content on a non standard healer in ESO isnt indication of it being easy, it's DESIGNED that way so people can play and build how they like. one thing ESO does better than FFXIV.

I don't think people know what casual means. "Casual doesn't mean you can be lazy." Nope, but it does mean that if they are lazy then you shouldn't give a crap....because it's casual. "Players should look up guides to be bettter...." at being casual? That doesn't even make since to me.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

I havent even done mythic raiding in WoW only mythic + dungeons but having played both I can tell you that the pug content in FFXIV isnt that much different from LFR raids in wow. I don't see where you're getting this from.

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Titan Hardmode was (when it was current) a bit tougher than anything LFR had in WoW. And for modern content, Shinryu Normal is way more punishing than anything in LFR.

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Also being able to complete the hardest content on a non standard healer in ESO isnt indication of it being easy, it's DESIGNED that way so people can play and build how they like. one thing ESO does better than FFXIV.

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When I can two button heal veteran White Gold Tower and Morrowind veteran DLC dungeons on a Nightblade.. its far too easy. Its one of the reasons I stopped ESO. I basically beat it. That was at Champion 300 where max is 660. I could probably ignore most mechanics if I was 660. Healing a Plane of Fear break-in on a Druid on a Everquest progression server was more challenging then that.

As someone who does have a physical disability and some social anxiety, I wanted to post how it is for me on this game. I've been playing this since January 2014.

Royal Menagerie was probably the most frustrating thing for me. I think this was the first time I actually did MSQ when it was still new vs catching up on ARR and HW when it was old. For the most part, the first two phases wasn't quite too bad, though I still messed up some. The third phase was where I had the most trouble with so many of the mechanics happening. I haven't done EX primals, Coil, and so forth when synced. The most I've done was Garuda/Ifrit duo, and Titan solo. I'm only now doing Labyrinth of the Ancients and Syrcus Tower since it's easier, for the most part. I think the issue was mainly my reaction time. If I recall, it took maybe four or five tries to get a clear. First it was some FC people and random on the remaining, but eventually got a clear when it was all FC members.

To be honest, I most likely would have taken a break if I didn't get it cleared that day. I think about the only thing that would make me quit playing would be if I was unable to use my controller. When I first played, it was as Pugilist/Monk. Thinking back on that, I'm sure there was a lot of mistakes I did like not using AOE and positionals properly. There was a break after I finished ARR before I played again. At that point I was having difficulty playing Monk, so I leveled up Ninja since it didn't have as many positionals. Once I got to 35, I did ask when AOE skills should be used. I stayed with Ninja until Stormblood when I switched to Samurai after doing Sirensong. I'm not quite sure why I switched, however. So I cleared SB as Samurai and been doing Expert enough for some 310 gear and two 330 items.

Probably a broken record by now, but I switched jobs once again. After having issues on avoiding stuff in Skalla as melee, either avoiding mechanics or the first boss not being in place for positionals, I've decided to go with Red Mage for a different view. I haven't tried the other level 70 dungeons just yet as RDM, but for the most part, I've been having a bit of an easier time now. Still getting the hang of things, but I'm most likely going to stick with this job.

I'm most likely an average/terrible player. I do read/watch guides on the things I know I'll have issues on, despite how much of a spoiler it is. The only other thing I've had issues with would be the second boss on Bardam's Mettle. For some reason, I've struggled with that every single time I've seen it in roulette. I know by now what I really can or can't do, so I won't do things like Void Ark, Omega and such, most likely staying with LotA or ST.

As for the social anxiety, it just depends on how I feel that day. At this time, I can usually put it to the side when I do roulettes, though I don't say too much. I try to say "Hello" at the start or "Take Care" at the end and reply to things if it's directed at me. I think the most talking I've done would be on a Pharos Sirius Normal run when I was still fairly new on RDM, mostly explaining mechanics the best I could.

I'm not quite sure how to describe my reaction time, but I can try to use some other games for an example. While I wasn't a great player, I could still play some games like DMC 1 - 3, the first Bayonetta, and some fighting games on Normal, with a few issues, but nothing major unless it was Street Fighter 3 or something. Skip several years later to Bayonetta 2... and it was a huge difference. I somehow got to Chapter 11 on Normal before it was just too much for my hands. So I switched it to Easy, but I left the automatic accessory off. Even with that, I couldn't defeat the last boss so I just used the accessory so I could finish the game and haven't really played it again. Seems like action heavy games is something I'll have to avoid now.

I won't deny that I'm lazy on some things, but I also try to do the best that I'm able to. I know I still make mistakes, and probably still will in the future. Like one time on the first level 70 SB dungeon I forgot to use Embolden entirely, and face palmed after the dungeon ended. As long as it doesn't get crazier than RM, I can probably still do some things. Though if does, I might have to start mentioning that I do have a disability and might have some issues because of that. Anyway, pardon the long post, but I wanted to post a perspective of one person that does have some issues.