[Request] Remove Deorbit or Change it, Bugs found.

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

That same Concentration user does not need to make any "Gambles" with a White Mage or Scholar.

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I don't think any other healer has a "pull ally towards you" ability in pvp so I don't think you can really compare in that regard. I also find the other healers lacking in their own right. The other healers don't get a free instant cast by casting the cheapest heal.

Deorbit isn't an oh shit button like Benediction. That is not where it shines. It is to be used to preempt or reset the stage.

Essentially Deorbit is the equivalent of Aura Blast or Fluid Aura. As it resets player positioning. Both of those don't have an effect when Concentration is active.

Concentration's intended use is to negate a negative status effect or displacement that is inflicted by the enemy.

Deorbit is meant to pull the player back so that they can be withdrawn from damage (melee damage at the least) and allow the AST to catch up with healing, or pull the player from a bad position, etc. This is an unconventional CD when compared to the other two healers, who's CDs are direct healing and damage mitigation.

Imagine of Concentrate canceled the effect of Divine Benison or or Lustrate. That would be pretty frustrating for both players:
-The Player using Concentrate will not be able to block the enemy CC that they were intending for
-The Healer has now wasted a CD that had no effect in minimizing damage/allow them to catch up on healing.

Like it was previously mentioned, due to the kits of all three healers, WHM and SCH do not suffer the loss of a CD, so therefore they don't need to gamble unlike the AST.

Deorbit is not like Fluid Aura or Aura Blast. Those two CDs are intended to knock an ENEMY player away from themselves. Deorbit is meant for a TEAMMATE player who may be in danger. They are both displacements in that respect, but they serve two different purposes. Basically at this point you're pretty much saying "Hey AST tough titties for Deorbit + Concentrate"

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Originally Posted by Syrus_Draco

Deorbit is not like Fluid Aura or Aura Blast. Those two CDs are intended to knock an ENEMY player away from themselves. Deorbit is meant for a TEAMMATE player who may be in danger. They are both displacements in that respect, but they serve two different purposes. Basically at this point you're pretty much saying "Hey AST tough titties for Deorbit + Concentrate"

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You just stated why Deorbit shouldn't work while Concentration is active. They are displacements which Concentration is meant to stop. Eating the buff is definitely a bug which should be addressed in the bug section. I agree it shouldn't eat the Concentration buff but where I disagree is deorbit should work when concentration is active. Which is the gamble I am referring too. Concentration no where states that is only meant for negative effects.

Tooltip: Creates a barrier preventing Stun, Sleep, Bind, Heavy, Slow, Silence, and knockback effects.
Duration: 10s

Deorbit is essentially a knockback effect which is why Deorbit also doesn't work with Inner Release.

I main AST in pvp but you don't see me whining about how deorbit doesn't work in certain situations. I have also deorbit'ed a corpse before. But I have also used ED and Benefic II on a corpse before.

Also if it is so buggy. Why has no one started a bug report? That would be the quickest resolution to the problem and we would be able to see what SE intended.

Update: I tested Deorbit today and agree the Conc being eaten is a bug but it not pulling back is working as intended since with IR it doesn't consume the buff or pull back.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Update: I tested Deorbit today and agree the Conc being eaten is a bug but it not pulling back is working as intended since with IR it doesn't consume the buff or pull back.

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By having skills that have a negative effect on a teammate you devalue those skills. Concentration devalues Deorbit use because it wastes the CD of deorbit, does nothing while concentration is up and it already isn't the best skill anyway.

Deorbit will negate concentration, because things like the latency that occurs between players it's very possible for someone to Concentration right as someone deorbits and both skills to be wasted.

If that is indeed "working as intended" (which you don't really get to decide not being the one who created the battle system btw) then we have far bigger problems to worry about involving future skills, mechanics, and balances from the battle team for PvP.

As that is indeed terrible design for a skill , especially when you consider that displacing your teammate is not very positive and may have little effect, every melee has a gap closer and ranged don't need to go very far to continue hitting you, not to mention you can still be hit in the pull/ after the deorbit for a moment.

If it acted as a teleport I could agree with you, but it doesn't, you're not bringing your target back behind a wall with deorbit unless they're positioned in a certain way.

I could probably make a very long post about the demerits of Deorbit and its interaction with concentration , and how that is bad mechanical design /balance if it was intended, and how it is more likely a bad interaction with Deorbit being counted as a "draw-in" effect and being basically the first skill to be a beneficial draw-in.(Meaning they're likely coded the same as a monster draw in-effect, there probably is no such difference in the system between a beneficial and negative draw-in). It's highly doubtful they would intend such a negative interaction, not present on any other beneficial skill in the game, on one job.

I understand you like the skill and that's great, but it really does need improvements.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

If that is indeed "working as intended" (which you don't really get to decide not being the one who created the battle system btw) then we have far bigger problems to worry about involving future skills, mechanics, and balances from the battle team for PvP.

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Let me follow-up with IR has the same behavior as Conc. If it isn't working as intended then it should work with IR? Would you agree? You stating it is a bug and presuming that it should work with IR and Conc is exhibiting the exact same as me. But for all of you complaining in this post are doing nothing to state it is a bug. So how do any of us know what is intended or not without going through the bug process. We are all making a bunch of assumptions. So with that said "you don't really get to decide not being the one who created the battle system btw".

I only pvp in front lines so my opinion reflects only that, but I do use deorbit quite often to pull back party members that either rush into an opponents group and I think they're going to die or if they've been dragged in by something like unmend. With that said I'd like to see the skill cleaned up a little and I'd like to see it receive some kind of buff like damage taken reduction. Thankfully I've never had a player flip out on me for yanking them and have received thanks for doing it.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

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Difference is I'm not the one saying it's "intended that way" , I said these are more likely cases, because if you actually look at the evidence and the other skills we have in PvP, and add in the goal of the revamp being to simplify PvP, then Deorbit behaving with such a negative drawback to its use just doesn't make sense.

Like for example of course Inner release behaves the same, they probably have similar coding. It prevents knockbacks, draw-in, etc. So i'll say again there probably is no system determination for a negative draw in, and a positive one.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

Difference is I'm not the one saying it's "intended that way" , I said these are more likely cases, because if you actually look at the evidence and the other skills we have in PvP, and add in the goal of the revamp being to simplify PvP, then Deorbit behaving with such a negative drawback to its use just doesn't make sense.

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How would it be classified as a bug then? That's the whole point of this thread. I attempted to fill out a bug report for all of you who are saying it is buggy but apparently I lack sufficient information. So maybe someone should do that.

great.... now we have lost a great skill that (of used properly) can have a huge impact especially in 4v4..... and what do we get? more RNG cards no one wanted. happy now? thx a lot mate!

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Originally Posted by amoralisch

great.... now we have lost a great skill that (of used properly) can have a huge impact especially in 4v4..... and what do we get? more RNG cards no one wanted. happy now? thx a lot mate!

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Yeah, a huge impact, in being the only healer cooldown that's super situational and can be detrimental to the team lul

https://i.imgur.com/2nxJ5Hi.png?1