Why so sadist ? I thought you learned from HW :(

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

However, you still skipped over correcting yourself from fact and opinion.

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I stated a fact and explained why it's a fact. It's a fact that the reason games include crafting is because it gives players a chance to make things that are then usable within that game. It's opinion that doing so is rewarding and enjoyable (though apparently an opinion that's widely enough held for it to have been worth incorporating a crafting system into just about every MMO I know of and quite a few single player games as well). It's something that some players care about and others don't, certainly, but crafting exists because of the ones who do.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I stated a fact and explained why it's a fact.

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Opinion =/= Fact.

You stated it as the greatest reason, but it's not for a primary class you level. Main Scenario is there for your primary, it's a reason (crafting and gathering is) for your secondary, and evidence displays otherwise. This thread is even an opinion about how "Sadistic" SE is. When there's no true evidence to this. They are giving you an easy path to level both crafting and gathering, your personal playstyle on how you want it to play is a problem of your own doing. MSQ takes less time than before.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Opinion =/= Fact.

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No, it's not, and it seems you're the one who doesn't know which is which.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

No, it's not, and it seems you're the one who doesn't know which is which.

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Prove it. The onus is on the person making the accusation that SE is sadistic.

Because this thread shows otherwise (the complaining and hyperbole). It's obvious this was made to get people through main scenario, then people could go gather during downtime/queues but nowhere is there a push for people to make gear through two obvious facts. 1. You get the gear during main scenario 2. You get a drop each time you run the dungeon. It's not there to discriminate that someone is leveling their crafter/gatherer at the same time, it's there to push the player through main scenario.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

People (those who have any interest in gathering / crafting) should be able to first gather items, then use them to make gear, then do the content where they'd wear that gear. If you have to have already passed the content where you'd want the gear before you can gather/make it, then what's the point of ever making it at all?

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Both ways have their flaws. If we have crafter/gatherer level first then no point taking quest rewards or doing dungeons because their loot is only useful for alt jobs.
Same thing with having battle job leveled first, crafter/gatherer only purpose would be making i320s for multi jobs.
Leveling same time implies that you need battle job first because it counts as a hunting gatherer for hides, skins, oils.

For the story gate, this applies to most jobs, not just crafter/gatherer. You can't finish job quests, update npc white gears and obtain level 70 skill unless you can go there.
It's simple, how would WoL or PC know about people or a place they've never visit before. That's the game.

it will always be impossible to please everyone. That's why no game ever tries to do it. I think its safe to say, most people do the storyline when they play.

Rather than complaining and making threads, by the time you finished the arguement, you might of finished the story and actually got stuff done. Glad people love arguing over something rather than getting things done. ^_^

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Prove it. The onus is on the person making the accusation that SE is sadistic.

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So why would you ask me to prove it only to immediately point out that the onus to do so isn't on me? I've never made any such accusation.

As to what I did claim, I've already provided the evidence of that, but since you don't seem to even know what I claimed, it's clear you never read enough to notice it.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

So why would you ask me to prove it only to immediately point out that the onus to do so isn't on me? I've never made any such accusation.

As to what I did claim, I've already provided the evidence of that, but since you don't seem to even know what I claimed, it's clear you never read enough to notice it.

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You claimed it is the greatest reward of crafting for your main class while leveling. It isn't I just showed that it is for your alt because your main class going through the scenario is provided gear in 2 places. It's also pointed out that the battle class also gathers materials. The onus is still on you to prove it is the greatest reward when leveling your main. It simply is not.

It is to push you through the story, THEN you can go and get mats needed for your alt classes you are gearing.

Also subjectively speaking, it's not everyone's greatest reward. There are those that simply level up crafters to create furnishing items or make gil, regardless of their level.

http://i0.wp.com/www.lazygamer.net/i...squareenix.jpg

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

As to what I did claim, I've already provided the evidence of that, but since you don't seem to even know what I claimed, it's clear you never read enough to notice it.

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You claimed it is the greatest reward of crafting for your main class while leveling. It isn't I just showed that it is for your alt

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Given that I never said anything about either main or alt classes, and that the only things I said about leveling are "It doesn't sound like the issue is about how to level" and "Whether [it] happens to be leveling or not is completely beside the point," you've got a really weird way of deciding what I claimed (as in you just made it up out of whole cloth). All you did is prove my point that you have no idea what we're even talking about.