Periodic Warrior complaint thread episode 2

Yeah I agree; Warrior having the best DPS doesn't mean anything when you look at by how much it leads by. Yeah, a Warrior played absolutely flawlessly will definitely outdo a Paladin by a fairly noticeable margin, but the paladin also requires infinitely less effort to do its DPS and also brings defensive utility that will always be useful.

Either one of two things needs to happen: either the reward for playing WAR well needs to increase rather significantly, or he needs utility to compensate. Dark Knight is also largely in the same boat, but honestly that job's such a mess that it would need an entire damn rework from the ground up.

• Shake it Off is now a party-wide Excogitation (auto-heal when health drops below 50%) that scales based on the user's max HP. Cooldown remains the same, damage threshold might need to be raised to 60-75% or something.
• Unchained no longer linked to Inner Release (Unchained is literally a dead skill at 70)
• 2-3s added to Berserk and Inner Release durations to make 7-cleave more consistent.
• Unchained increases Inner Beast damage to 500 and Steel Cyclone to 280.
• Onslaught potency doubled (200)
• Defiance parry bonus and Deliverance crit bonus no longer scale with the Beast Gauge and are always applied in full.
• Infuriate can be now used out of combat
• Maybe reducing the damage penalty of Defiance to 15% (originally I was comparing it to PLD, but then I remembered that we have Storm's Eye, so this might just be me being greedy)
• If everything above isn't enough then maybe a 5-15% damage buff to anything not mentioned above.

What I want to see is a bigger emphasis on stance dancing. Right now it feels very "black & white" in that you basically never go back into Defiance after establishing aggro (although I imagine you'd also do it for tankbusters in savage - if there was any reason for WAR to be main tanking in savage when DRK and PLD can do it far easier).
Seriously, you give up so much in your Tank stance compared to PLD and DRK, it's unreal.
With a change like the above, optimal WAR play would have you switching between Defiance and Deliverance for each one of your burst windows, with the stance you spend more time in outside depending on your role.

Of all the things above though, I'd especially like for Shake it Off to become a party-wide Excog. Not just because it's good utility that could be used for both tankbusters and raidwides, but it also fits thematically with the concept (shrug off the damage and keep going!).

All those dmg buff suggestions, are you trying to break 5k dps in o1s or what? XD

You know what job has a significant gap in dps compare to paladin? Dragoon......how just ask SE to change warrior completely in to a red icon job huh? Too complicated to play than paladin? guess what you guys asked for more "fun" and paladin was and is boring to play according to some high level pros. People just can't watch a shield and sword job doing good. Don't be "I'm fine with pld changes but blah blah blah". It's just like "I'm not racist but blah blah blah". Paladin is not buffed in 4.0, it is FIXED! Are Drk and WAR performed less than 3.0? No, they are just different but not less.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

All those dmg buff suggestions, are you trying to break 5k dps in o1s or what? XD

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If you look closely, there's not as much as you might think.
The Unchained adjustment would makes it so that you can do WAR's current non-IR Berserk rotation in tank stance. It'd also by extension boost the healing, making WAR more survivable.
Onslaught change is just so that it is actually used outside of 'zerk windows/dumping gauge.
The other two (5% taken off Defiance and 5-15%) are made with skepticism, but ultimately WAR needs a higher payoff than what if currently has if it's going to be so rigid and screwed hard by mechanics like it currently is.

A direction that WAR could go in is "DPS and Survivability".
PLD can be "Survivability and Utility".
And DRK COULD be "Utility and DPS". Although frankly I know nothing about DRK.

I was mostly joking about your last point, adding 5-15% to anything not mentioned, but making the crit buff from deliverance permanent is a pretty big buff. Allowing infuriate outside combat makes it possible to start the fight in 100 gauge and infuriate (almost) off cd, and that's a very big buff to your opener. Onslaught is already used outside berserk as a gauge dump. During your berserk inner release window, even if you can fit 7 fell cleaves, it's not as potent as fitting 6 fell cleaves, an upheaval and 2 onslaughts. If you add berserk and inner release duration enough to fit 10 gcds it will change the rotation though. War's dps is fine, it just needs something else to offer to the party, either raid dps buff or defensive utilities that can compare to veil, intervention or cover.

Tbh war isn't too hard to play. With the current inner release rotation, unless you pop it at stupid times you won't really lose much. You can even pop inner release without full gauge and still do 6 fell cleaves and an upheaval. Finding 20s windows to do berserk rotation has always been the first thing warriors try to do since I started raiding in gordias. We just do it more often now (20s every 60s compared to 20s every 90s) with less to worry about (no 5s pacification, so you don't have to worry about having to pick adds for example).

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Tbh war isn't too hard to play. With the current inner release rotation, unless you pop it at stupid times you won't really lose much. You can even pop inner release without full gauge and still do 6 fell cleaves and an upheaval. Finding 20s windows to do berserk rotation has always been the first thing warriors try to do since I started raiding in gordias \

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it is still unnecessarily hard to play and needed a change, considering they need to work at least twice as hard to be only dealing equal(sometimes lower) to 1-5 percent higher damage than the other 2 tanks(or paladin to be exact),if SE want to keep WAR rotation as convoluted as they're now the only way to compensate is to increase their damage output by 10-15 percent their current amount

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

it is still unnecessarily hard to play and needed a change, considering they need to work at least twice as hard to be only dealing equal(sometimes lower) to 1-5 percent higher damage than the other 2 tanks(or paladin to be exact),if SE want to keep WAR rotation as convoluted as they're now the only way to compensate is to increase their damage output by 10-15 percent their current amount

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That's why I still play WAR now though, I love how you really have to work for everything.

My only gripe, give us back a bloodbath like ability...

change shake it off.

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Originally Posted by konpachizaraki

it is still unnecessarily hard to play and needed a change, considering they need to work at least twice as hard to be only dealing equal(sometimes lower) to 1-5 percent higher damage than the other 2 tanks(or paladin to be exact),

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Warrior is currently the most forgiving, straightforward, versatile, and generally easy tank to play, and they're rewarded for it by having both the best offence and the best defence.

These complaints about the class being hard to optimize are, at best, outdated rants based on the 4.00 version of Warrior in an environment when Susano was standard by which all SB classes were measured.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Warrior is currently the most forgiving, straightforward, versatile, and generally easy tank to play, and they're rewarded for it by having both the best offence and the best defence.

These complaints about the class being hard to optimize are, at best, outdated rants based on the 4.00 version of Warrior in an environment when Susano was standard by which all SB classes were measured.

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if you're joking then you need to stop because it's not funny, offensively paladin can easily match or even surpass a warrior without needing to use as much effort as them.defensively they're worse than paladin since their self healing took some hit by not being able to use bloodbath, while paladin can spam clemency almost every time and now they're able to block magic damage. oh and not to mention war has almost 0 utility