Reasons why SMN is frustrating and difficult.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

~You need Aetherflow before summoning Bahamut or you'll miss 3 wyrm waves and lose dps, which you guessed it, is a dps loss

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I don't remember needing aetherflow before summoning bahamut. You can cast it w/o it, although having it up while bahamut is up is not a dps loss. Remember bahamut acts each ability/spell is used so having 3 stacks up is basically having him act 3 times, more dps gained.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

~The skill floor and the skill ceiling are ridiculously high. Imo, if you play very casually, this class is not for you. The dps difference between good and bad is very large. You almost need a guide or at least a few hours wacking a dummy to get somewhat of a feel for the class.

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I thought it was at first, but it was just the mindset of thinking that the playstyle is the same as w/ 2.x and 3.x. SMNs just lost a good amount of aoe abilities for dmg, lack of a 3rd dot w/ consolidated, loss of sustain, etc. There's no need for a guide to get better at the job. It just nothing more than to "retrain" yourself in that job due to it's changes. It's not a high learning curve, in fact it's more.....weight off of your shoulders in a way. By doing lesser things, it becomes more easier to manage, applying dots is way simplified now that tri resets every DT so can reapply ruin potency buff twice, telling you to not use aetherflow at this time, while at the same time still being a strong casting job.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

I don't remember needing aetherflow before summoning bahamut. You can cast it w/o it, although having it up while bahamut is up is not a dps loss. Remember bahamut acts each ability/spell is used so having 3 stacks up is basically having him act 3 times, more dps gained.

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He is acting at every GCD/cast AND every correct timed oGCD on the boss (including Addle). Thats the reason you loose DPS when not having aetherflow ready.

Correct done Bahamut hits 2 times every GCD.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

What? I never seen any SMN players including myself even do that. I usually stay ifrit or garuda up depending on what the party setup is. More melee DPS=ifrit, more magic DPS=garuda.

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Some do this to proc Ruin IV.

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Originally Posted by KarstenS

He is acting at every GCD/cast AND every correct timed oGCD on the boss (including Addle). Thats the reason you loose DPS when not having aetherflow ready.

Correct done Bahamut hits 2 times every GCD.

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Because the animation, the program they designed in the game, that it has to que itself in order to do it again, then it fall back to the player to fix it in order to gain DPS.

To tell the truth, even w/ demi-bahamut up throughout fights, you not really losing DPS. Cause you pretty much casting him every 2 mins or more(depending on situation in the fight)so by that time that DPS loss is non-existant only to rebuild it or more. The moment you cast him and instantly hit akh morn, that's your burst to keep your DPS up while waiting for 13 secs to do another one, twice while demi is up. Plus every 160 potency a ability is used by wyrmwave for it to act. I just look at it now either the design is bad or the player does not know how to adapt to the new rotation.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Some do this to proc Ruin IV.

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Sounds like a flaw to me in the design for smn, yet at the same time too much of a risk to lose DPS in the long run......and MP. It's why I had a issue w/ it in the forums a week ago that it should be played in PvP, to where every DT is active, Ruin 4 is 100% proc, at the same time does not proc enhanced enkindled to not be OP for the job.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

If they ever rebuild Summoner, I'd rather not have it be a pet job and instead work around the Demi summoning.

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Whether it is a DoT mage, pet warlock or traditional SE Summoner I really don't care what the job becomes at this point. I just wish SE would decide what flavor a Summoner should be and work on a cohesive design to fulfill that requirement.

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Originally Posted by Alisi

I'd just like to know how it is that we can summon Bahamut and literally see him appear, and still have our egi die and Bahamut die with him. It's like, I've summoned him. He's there up on the screen. How is it that my pet isn't invulnerable or something until it disappears? And I don't think it's too much to ask that we get the full value of our two trances.

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Why does the pet have to be up to summon Bahamut at all? It makes sense the pet might go away during Bahamut but everything else is independent in the way you build up to the summon so the summon itself should be as well.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

What? I never seen any SMN players including myself even do that. I usually stay ifrit or garuda up depending on what the party setup is. More melee DPS=ifrit, more magic DPS=garuda.

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All of my info comes from studying guides and videos from the top SMNs that do really good dps and are very good at their jobs. Using Ifrit first then summonIng Garuda is a raid dps gain since you get 19 seconds of 2% phys up on the boss and the tank gets 6+ 50 potency counters, and since it doesn't share a CD with contagion, you can still use it for yourself and any caster dps.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

All of my info comes from studying guides and videos from the top SMNs that do really good dps and are very good at their jobs. Using Ifrit first then summonIng Garuda is a raid dps gain since you get 19 seconds of 2% phys up on the boss and the tank gets 6+ 50 potency counters, and since it doesn't share a CD with contagion, you can still use it for yourself and any caster dps.

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Hmm, I would figured that the complaints would come from oneself, not others to come to that conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Osmond

Hmm, I would figured that the complaints would come from oneself, not others to come to that conclusion.

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They are from myself. I was just telling you where I got my info and why it works, not doing is a raid dps loss. But I don't do it personally because its a big pain and I don't do Ex Primals or Savage raids on SMN, but then again I don't really play SMN at all anymore because of...well...the whole opening post.

SMN on its face looks easy....like braindead easy, dots ruin spam dreawyrm repeat bahamut, but to really get out good damage you have to work your bum off far more than any other DPS https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...#h.hvyhdfi6auz, and the damage you'd output isn't even that great either.