Healer adjustment in 4.05

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

WHM has better MP sustain, better throughput, and higher raw single target DPS. This isn\\\\\\'t 3.4 anymore where D.AST outshines WHM in every single facet of the kit. WHM now has a niche they can put their name onto and differentiate them from their AST counterpart. Groups should pick the healer pairs that are suitable for their comfort, skill, and group composition. There wasn\\\\\\'t really that choice in 3.4 versus now.

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For love of God stop saying whm has more dps like searsouly. A whm dps can not even come close to a aoe balance.

Don't bother saying
"But balance is hard to get and is rng"
Cuz I can have a aoe balance up almost a entire primal fight

I killed lakshimi in a pug CLEAR group for a friend and we killed lakshimi before we got lb3. I had aoe balance up the entire fight but adds cuz I was like meh i don't think you need buffs for this.

Now yes aoe balance dose have SOME down time but not much

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you?

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Maths shows that SCH utility (AKA Chain Stratagem) is barely 1% damage increase. So, only if party dps is over 20k, bringing an SCH is slightly more damage than bringing a WHM. "Slightly" doesn't make for all the extra healing a WHM can provide compared to an SCH.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

You didn't read the part where I mentioned WHMs higher personal DPS is a) only marginally better (around 200 dps more than SCH, at the most) and b) stinks compared to the increase the others bring to the group, did you? So tell my, why bring a WHM without anything beneficial to the group instead of a SCH or AST who can support said group outside of pure healing, while also delivering said healing at the same time? Tell me. I'm curious. Also, 3.4 bias? Not chasing the meta? LOL... Every. single. meta discussion I followed via Discord etc. agrees that AST/SCH is meta again. Better MP management doesn't do ANYTHING when there's nothing you can do that others cannot (and SCH gets buffed in that regard soon anyways, so even less of an advantage), Chain Stratagem is a pretty useful skill to have and nothing WHM can do comes close, and I don't think I have to touch upon AST and their monstrous kit. Also, most SCH I know agree that at 70 they have far less troubles than they had early on. But I didn't expect anything from an apologist anyway, so what am I even still doing here...

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Your poor assumption is that every single raid group in the entire world can play at a speedkill / world first skill level. Not everyone can do that, nor everyone wants to do that. Even if AST/SCH is meta, you'd still consider bringing WHM for the longevity because *GASPS* PEOPLE CAN MAKE MISTAKES.

Sure, if you're playing at the absolute pinnacle of skill level the extra healing and longevity WHM brings can mean nothing - but now WHM brings a viable and different alternative to running meta.

You and the few sheeple like you seem to have it stuck in your heads that it's either META OR BUST when there are all different types of players and skill levels and now each healer, as of 4.0, brings something unique that a healer player can leverage into their raid group. This isn't 3.4 where the AST kit completely outclasses the WHM kit. This is 4.0. STOP TREATING IT LIKE IT'S A 3.4 KIT.

Also:

Susano EX Healer DPS
#1 WHM - 2,458.6 DPS
#1 SCH - 2,422.7 DPS (1.5% less than WHM)
#1 AST - 2,126.7 DPS (14.5% less than WHM)

Lakshimi EX Healer DPS
#1 WHM - 2,878.7 DPS
#1 SCH - 2,347.7 DPS (18.4% less than WHM)
#1 AST - 2,126.8 DPS (26.1% less than WHM)

If you sort it by Balance DPS WHM is basically ahead 100-200 DPS at a time of SCH and 400-500 DPS ahead of AST. Yes, AST can make that up on the power of Expanded Balance, not too sure if Chain Stratgem allows the raid to make up that DPS over the course of the fight but a well played WHM can bring a lot of just raw power through without a reliance on the rest of your team playing perfectly.

If a healer is more comfortable playing WHM over AST or SCH, they now have the ability to do that without thinking "I'm playing the weaker kit". I make an infinitely better WHM than I do SCH or AST and if my group makes mistakes, I can fix it unlike if things go south when I'm on SCH or AST - and now I don't feel like I'm a burden to the group like I felt WHM was when 3.4 AST changes overtuned the living hell outta the job.

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Originally Posted by simiii

For love of God stop saying whm has more dps like searsouly. A whm dps can not even come close to a aoe balance.

Don't bother saying
"But balance is hard to get and is rng"
Cuz I can have a aoe balance up almost a entire primal fight

I killed lakshimi in a pug CLEAR group for a friend and we killed lakshimi before we got lb3. I had aoe balance up the entire fight but adds cuz I was like meh i don't think you need buffs for this.

Now yes aoe balance dose have SOME down time but not much

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Except... WHM does bring more raw DPS than any other healer. *Points to above* Heck, look at the new SSS requirements for Susano EX. WHM is expected to be 10% more powerful than SCH and 20% more powerful than AST. Of course player skill level can lead to those gaps being less and it shows when you look at the logs of the highest DPS numbers recorded on logs.

The question then remains, for YOU, as the player - can you bring more DPS playing WHM, SCH, or AST? If the group DPS is lower than the pinnacle of skill level, then you might just get more overall output as a WHM than if you would play SCH or AST. This is up to each individual group to decide where their strengths and weaknesses lie and build accordingly.

Again - it's not clear cut anymore that AST > WHM in every category. BRING THE HEALER THAT IS MOST SUITABLE FOR YOU AND YOUR GROUP.

I just want my shields as a Scholar to feel like shields. They cost a lot, let them do something other than me holding my breath for crit. Dissipation change at some point would be nice. However, the others do look like a step in the right direction.

I'm really curious if these changes to SCH is going to push WHM to the bench yet again. I really don't feel WHM can stand up to a SCH if they get even more DPS, more use of their fairy skills and such. We'll see, but I have a bad feeling about this.

I'm being optimistic. WHM isn't weak by any means, and them tweaking Lilies and PI could just make WHM stronger.

WHM, imo, feels really good and packs a nice punch. I really don't feel that WHM can easily be completely outclassed at the moment. AST is strong but I don't see it as so cut and dry as 3.4, as Ghishlain had pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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How about looking at the numbers when a group doesn't buff up one player by putting the balance on them and only them.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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You are telling someone who stuck with WHM through all of 2.x and 3.x, and will continue to do so during 4.x, despite the blatand weaknesses of the job they are a sheeple and blind meta follower for feeling they didn't do enough to help the job? I literally played AGAINST meta for around the past half year or longer, and you still tell me I'm a 'blind follower of meta'? LOL. If that were the case, I would have switched to AST ages ago because that's the only healer I feel makes sense to play right now. But, you know, I love WHM and want to play it, even though people told me how much slower their runs are with me instead of an AST in 3.3 and 3.4. And just for your information, I don't need anybody to tell me how good or bad something is, I think for my own, and if my own opinion, by chance, aligns with most other people, that still doesn't make me a blind follower of anything. The blind meta junkies are the reason I'm so angry, because they are the ones who exclude people from stuff for playing certain jobs.

Also, you did literally nothing to rebuke my claim of WHM being 200 DPS ahead of SCH, you even gave me the proof I was looking for the past half an hour. Thank you for that I guess. Also, I would argue WHM is MORE reliant on the rest of the party playing perfectly than, say, SCH, because I still can't heal and DPS at the same time outside of Assize, while SCH still has the Fairy (even with the nerfs) and Stratagem is a buff to the party, not reliant on how well people dodge and how much unavoidable AoE goes out. I, however, have to care about those things very much and it greatly lowers my DPS if I have to heal instead of DPS. And why should I not treat it like a 3.4 kit? We got almost nothing new in Stormblood except for MP management, and even lost so much it's not even funny. Benison? A slightly stronger, far less flexible Stoneskin. It CAN be instant of you have a Lily, but will likely not be, forcing you to cast Cure II to get one, giving it a cast time again. This can also screw with you majorly if your co-healer tops off the tank before you can. Even after playing 4.0 WHM for a month now, the Lily system still feels incredibly clunky, and gets ignored by me for the most part because why bother if the benefits are so miniscule and I have to jump through hoops to get them? Also, there are far, FAR too many Lily dumps and too few skills that build them, and half of them is reliant on RNG. Horrible design. And lets not even start on the train wreck that's PI, not even YOU can think that skill is actually good...

Please stop acting like Stoneskin was good. It wasn't. It was a garbage mitigation tool, and an over all terrible ability.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Please stop acting like Stoneskin was good. It wasn't. It was a garbage mitigation tool, and an over all terrible ability.

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And Benison is better why, exactly? Just because of the 5% more mitigation? Guess what, they could have just buffed Stoneskin up to that value and be done with it, and everyone would have been happy. Instead they opted to create Benison, which is reliant on a mechanic half my other healing kit is reliant on, too, has a shit duration compared to Stoneskin, AND lies on a 30 second CD to boot when Stoneskin had 30 MINUTES. This means I can't just give a recently rezzed DPS a shield anymore to stop him from dying instantly again, I can't pre-shield the group anymore as I could before, and to add insult to injury, I only get Benison at level 66. That's right. I now have 65 levels without ANY shielding whatsoever. Stoneskin wasn't really good in HW anymore, granted, and I saw not much point in using it in raids anymore outside the aforementioned situations (it was great for tank busters in 2.x), but holy sh**, looking at the drawbacks of Benison makes Stoneskin look VERY desirable in my opinion.