Healing Direction - is the current design balanced?

Things you are ignoring:

1. HP boost due to Attribute System readded
2. MP boost (making cure penality not much of an issue)
3. MND healing boost

You do not need to AOE cure at all pre 30, hell barely ever past that. I never have Curaga on my bar, never needed it at all. It just caused way to much hate so it was pointless to me, i was much faster at cure 2'ing. Pre 30 you dont want that hate.

All the content pre 30.. even 40 is designed for 4 people, 1 being you. Do you seriously need an AOE heal for 3 people?

20% of the levelling curve goes quick, even for new players it will go quick, but that isnt the point because new players will be brought up with this system and be known by it. You see how new players didnt bitch about cure costs and mp issues, only existing players did because they got used to 1 system and it complately changed.

This is happening now, a player used to 1 system, being told to play in a different way.

Level 30 is not near level cap at all, as said its 20% so that is why people are saying to not worry about the levels as they go quick because the OP thinks he is "almost near level cap" at 30.

Not to mention the current AOE is not always a cheaper, better solution. You might hit it, miss people, or heal people for 200 each, when they need 800 healed, it becomes pointless in many situations. Be more skilled and control your heals better, this will make mp consumption easier.

iirc you can put cure on Thm so...

OP you do realize that the growth curve for HP was changed with 1.19 so that players have much lower HP at lower levels than before, and the rate at which you gain HP per level really picks up after level 35? They're doing the same thing with MP with his patch.

Players under 35 won't have so much HP that you need a variety of healing spells - especially when you have one that scales based on your level. Even then you get Cura, which will essentially be the new Cure III, at level 30.

It's one thing to ask for variety, but in this case you're asking for variety just for the sake of variety. You don't need 2-3 different healing spells just 'cause when one of them will get the job done effectively.

As for other classes subbing Cure - that much is expected by design of the armory system. Most of class uniqueness will come as you gain higher levels because by that time you will gain more exclusive skills and amass more traits - which directly push your class in it's unique direction.

I'd like to see more polarity in the mages so that we'd have one clear healer class with more spells. Also more healing spells in general. Cure cura curaga curagaja and so on. Also it sounds like mp consumption isn't at all balanced. There should always be a reason to use lower level spells to manage time and mp when there's a lot of people in the pt with semi full hp bars. If the most efficient way to play healer is to spam the strongest spell then the balancing is clearly not done.

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Originally Posted by grandm

i remember yoshi-p saying his fav class was mage classes and that was all he plays when hes playing for fun. so if he is comfortable with the changes to the classes he likes to play (being that he has more likely played them and OP hasn't) i would say. play the patch for a week, then make up your mind

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actually when yoshi was asked what class he played he stated directly he only played dd classes.

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Originally Posted by Seif

I'd like to see more polarity in the mages so that we'd have one clear healer class with more spells. Also more healing spells in general. Cure cura curaga curagaja and so on. Also it sounds like mp consumption isn't at all balanced. There should always be a reason to use lower level spells to manage time and mp when there's a lot of people in the pt with semi full hp bars. If the most efficient way to play healer is to spam the strongest spell then the balancing is clearly not done.

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I don't know how we can get any further defined with the mages aside from making all of their actions class exclusive. Conjurer is quite clearly the defined healer. It has some damage potential but only enough to really allow soloing where necessary. In a party Conjurers will be healing. Thaumaturge has been quite clearly put in the Damage/nuking role. They're about as defined as they're going to get.

As Noctis mentioned above we don't need a variety of healing spells just for the sake of having them. White Mage will bring more options but in the meantime we've got Cure, Cura, Curaga AND Sacred Prism which can turn Cure or Cura into an AoE for the sake of maybe a less powerful Curaga. Options exist but an overabundance of them isn't necessary, especially pre-30. Then add onto that the White Mage job which will be bringing a few more diverse means of curing.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

For now we must make do.. But I would like to see regen effects and instant cast cures on others make their return. Maybe low enmity instant cast regen (doesn't have the initial heal effect of Sacrifice), where enmity is calculated based on the first tick.

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It's coming with 1.21

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WHM Mag. 2 - Gradually restores the target's HP.

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I swear these forums are the perfect example of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf."

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Originally Posted by Ilisidi

Also means you then have to overheal with more MP or let the HP bar fall lower instead of shooting a low MP less HP healing spell.

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This is the best counterargument, I think, to non-tiered heals.
Of course, we don't know what MP bar progression and costs will look like yet, so the "costs" of "overhealing" may be negligible.

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Originally Posted by Monsalvato

The thing about THM being able to heal just as fine as CNJ (aside from the differences in job traits) on the first 30 levels really drives me mad. It's actually pretty true, and that's the reason why I'm getting angry.
They did all this class reform revolution to rightfully change the way classes "felt" and were perceived, because people were equipping actions from other classes and the threshold between one class and the other was really too thin. I felt that clearly levelling CNJ and THM, where I could equip CNJ spells on my THM and feel almost like a CNJ, an vice-versa.
So they *rightfully* decide to create a revolution to make so each class feels special and unique an different and what do we get is: "THM can heal just as fine as CNJ for the first 30 levels, using Cure, a CNJ spell".
Now, am I the only one seeing the irony in all of this?

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Hi Monsalvato,

Reading through this thread, I see your point. (BTW, you should probably update your Original Post to clarify that you're referring to the lack of variety of Cure spells, as some people are getting the vibe that you think there's only 1 Cure Spell with 1 Effect (no scaling potency, etc.).)

I agree with what you and Seif have brought up, that in the role of a "Pure Healer" that having more than 1 option would be good.

But at the same time, there are a few things to consider:

• Yoshida-san has stated that Classes (like Conjurer) are Generalist roles, and that Jobs (like White Mage) is where you get the Specialist role. So in this case, while you may be looking to be a "Pure Healer" at Level 1 immediately, that's not the case for Conjurer. That's why they've given Conjurer other spells as well before Level 30 (that you're listing as a demarcation point).

• Given the above about Generalist roles, we can see they're giving Conjurers Offensive abilities as well with Aero, Stone, and Stonera, as well as Cleric Stance (Increases potency of attack spells by 20% and reduces potency of healing spells by 20%).
  
  Add in that there's an Individual Combo with Stone --> Stonera, I can see new players learning and having fun activating:
  
  Cleric Stance --> Stone --> Stonera
  
  And having fun with Magic Combos like that early on. :) (In other words, that there's some Offensive actions you can try on Conjurer besides learning your role as Healer.)

• Enhancing Magic / Buffs / Raise: In addition to those things, there's also learning about Buffing parties and yourself, with Protect, Stoneskin and earning Raise (which is more valuable now than when the game first launched with the zero penalties early on).

So if we focus only on the idea of being a "Pure Healer," 'yes' it feels a bit limiting learning just one "Cure" spell. We'll have to see how effective cross-classing Cure will be on THM or other classes (if it's nearly the same as Conjurer, of course you have a right to feel like Yoshida-san took away some of the "distinction" of being a Conjurer, but let's see what it'll be like after the patch).


But looking at it as a Generalist role (which is what Yoshida-san had in mind), I think there are enough things on Conjurer to keep us busy through Level 30.


From that point on (unlocking White Mage Job), we'll have to see how effective and specialized it'll feel, but I remain cautiously optimistic that we might have a good set of classic Final Fantasy Jobs when 1.21 hits. :)

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Originally Posted by Monsalvato

I do care

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So do I, but we're in a minority. Until most people, including the devs won't start caring, nothing will change. Just look at the PL thread.