Would you improve if the content required it?

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Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul

Yes I would like to improve, but I am turned off to raiding not, because it's hard, but because of the uppity d'bags that swarm to it and talk crap to people who are trying to learn it. People learn by making mistakes, these types of "hardcore" will have none of it. I watch videos to prepare, but you don't learn really until you're in it and fail here and there.

In summary, I like difficult content, but dislike the attitude of the people that run them.

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Yep, and fflogs makes it worse. People seem to use fflogs to bash others rather than saying, "Hey, Jim... On fflogs, I saw that your dps was only 1k. Did you know that you can do 1.2k if you used more Dark Arts before Souleater?" But nope. It's "Your DRK OT is crappy with only 800 dps."

Forget gaming, that's how LIFE works.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Forget gaming, that's how LIFE works.

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Ok, so what about it?

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Originally Posted by Eimian_Eda

Yes, I play for the challenge, which FF14 kind of lacks.
Beating the current hardest content is what keeps me going (In all games).
#StopTheNerfs

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Basically the same for me; the challenges are what keep me going and my reason to try to actually get better gear, for example ( not much of a point in gearing up if there's nothing to gear for ). Plus I like a challenge, even if it means I have to try several times to be able to do it (and learn it); the satisfaction on knowing I was able to despite failing hard at first is great (for me)

Depends if I find it fun. Challenging fights with true randomness, where you can never have a perfectly straightforward and easily memorizable cool down rotation, where not every single gcd can be mapped out to perfection from start to finish? Yes, yes.YES.

Kind of a shame the devs said they'd never do that, but ah well. I prefer things that test your adaptability. Memorization isn't an actual skill.

Fights that simply have bigger numbers, but easily mapped out? Not particularly fun.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Depends if I find it fun. Challenging fights with true randomness, where you can never have a perfectly straightforward and easily memorizable cool down rotation, where not every single gcd can be mapped out to perfection from start to finish? Yes, yes.YES.

Kind of a shame the devs said they'd never do that, but ah well. I prefer things that test your adaptability. Memorization isn't an actual skill.

Fights that simply have bigger numbers, but easily mapped out? Not particularly fun.

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People tend to want their victories earned through their own merits and skill rather than coming out on top just because they got lucky that the boss did not use a tankbuster move 3 times in a row.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

People tend to want their victories earned through easy predictable and rehearsed fights rather than through skill.

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I agree, people don't want to get better or adapt, generally speaking, they want fights that are extremely predictable with no deviation from an easily mapped out rotation. Anything that's easily mapped out isn't hard, it's just about being able to memorize a spreadsheet. Even if it's new people are still able to map everything out.

I don't like 'challenging' fights where you can reliably say, "We pushed into phase X, tank buster in 20, raid wide AoE right after, then white damage after for 30 seconds." Just as an example.

For casual content? Sure, whatever, that lends itself nicely to easy content. Stuff that's supposed to be hard? Doesn't really mesh for me

Simply put, the ability to adapt is far more difficult a challenge than the ability to memorize.

That's sort of a non-question in my eyes.

I don't think people *only* improve when content requires it, they will just already be playing as well as they can, and if that's not good enough they will either just not do the content or wait/slog through multiple groups until they can be carried through it. Some folks have "improved" all that they can already and sometimes that just will still not be enough.

Sure, there's always going to be people who don't give as much of a shit and very well could "improve" but I think in the case of most people that have already been playing the same class(es) for a year or more, there isn't much room left for improvement in terms of what they are actually capable of (which is not to say that everyone is potentially capable of doing the hardest content, because sometimes they just aren't). The only way they will see "improvement" from then on is through the obtainment of higher level equipment.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Ok, so what about it?

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This should really be self-explanatory.

Throughout life you're going to be challenged, more often than not, you will need to improve yourself in some way to overcome that challenge, whether it's learning, trying a different method, trying an older method, improvising, etc. Those who adapt and improve reap the benefits and rewards, those who don't get left behind. And it goes without saying, art imitates life.

SE doesn't need to hold players' hands forever. All the levels and all the gear and all the different content should not only help you improve, but be a record of said improvement. Otherwise what's the point of getting them? Would it be at all fun if you were faced with the same difficulty at level 70 as you did at 60?

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Originally Posted by ShaneDawn

I think this one nailed it. Steps of Faith was never a hard fight, but a lot of people were willing to invest more time in the forums to get the fight nerfed rather than talk to their teammates and get the fight down.

Granted, I do believe that Story Mode content should be somewhat easy, but the community reaction back then was absolutely ridiculous.

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Because there was little incentive. Steps of Faith was long, somewhat tedious and any job with positionals just had a bad time. Compare that to say, Shiva, and people outright dropped out because it wasn't worth doing from a reward perspective. Weeping City, on the other hand, was the only option outside Savage if you wanted to upgrade your gear. If Stormblood made it so dungeons were challenging from the get go, people would grudgingly get over it because if they wanted to cap tomes efficiently, they have to.