So Long, Thanks for all the Fish

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What do you mean by this? Are you refering to Qarn being added to the MQ? Because I really dont recall having to do HMs in order to unlock MQ - only in order to unlock coil, which isnt mainstory at all.

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I've recently leveled an alt and there is a requirement to do Garuda/Titan/Ifrit HM before starting the story for patch 2.5. It was not a quest objective, but rather a hard requirement to begin ARR finale quests.

Speaking of that alt... I've finished ARR and am now past level 35 on a Heavensward job, while I still have a sprout icon! I would be sad to see the existing story become shorter. Maybe there are some unimpressive fetch quests here and there but it makes the important stuff more meaningful.

But indeed as Vidu said, the level 50 story will not be required for the next expansion. I'm glad they found a way to please both camps. No story arc will be butchered but people also don't have to play through all of them.

To keep the HMs relevant, by that time everyone had their relics, we were getting i100-110 (or was it already at the 120-130?) weapons and new players would wait a long time for the original 3 HMs to pop, so they were added to the MSQ so seasoned players would help new guys, the same as the turtle hest that would always pop on your roulette ALL THE TIME.

SE likes to keep content relevant by making high level players do it.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

What do you mean by this? Are you refering to Qarn being added to the MQ? Because I really dont recall having to do HMs in order to unlock MQ - only in order to unlock coil, which isnt mainstory at all.

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The HMs are required to accept the first quest of 2.5, "Good Intentions". http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...735b3d4280abe6

For what it's worth TC that's the last patch of ARR and Heavensward is more streamlined overall.

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Originally Posted by StormDisciple

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I'm pretty sure those quests just require you to talk to someone, attune to their crystals and then kill them in duty finder to complete, it's hardly something to throw a fit about. Keep in mind that newer players to FFXIV will benefit more from actually involving themselves in the story and have either friends or a free company to help them out with Duties that have longer queue times. If all you're playing for is end-game and you don't care about immersing yourself in the world and the story, then you will burn out.

Hopefully they add a way to essentially skip patch content for newer players or at least condense it into a cutscene, but that kind of thing will require an expansion for them to implement. Stay strong, and maybe try to change your mind set over the game, since there's a lot of story here and just diluting it to the basics will rob you of a good experience.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Oh, you're indeed correct... do makes me wonder why they've included that though... and while I can understand the frustration of reaching a point in the MQ that requires you to do something diffrent to progress - isnt that what you liked? ;P Like, trials...?

Still, it seems weird that they added such a requirement... anyone recalls some reasons for doing so?

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I think it's because (spoiler for 2.5)

The quest givers for the HM Trials are Thancred, Yda & Papalymo, and Y'shtola. It'd be weird to have them hanging out in the Waking Sands still after 2.55. Granted we have that problem with the Sultana still appearing in the CUL 50 quest if you do it during that time but it isn't as bad as the npcs hanging out in the field like nothing's wrong.

I don't think he was complaining about the story or the hm, I think he was complaining about the hundreds of irrelevant quests that have you kill 3 of this to get 3 of that or go here here and here to collect this, small things that have nothing to do with the story but exist as filler. We could literally strip away over half the quests in the main storyline and in no way effect the story, in fact may improve upon it.

The majority of new players I have talked to have also complained about this. It's easy for us to disregard as we were spoon fed it over 11 updates and mini updates, but when you sit down and do it all at once it's painful, especially when you are playing catch up and the playing field isn't as even as when the game was new. I've said it before and I will say it again. The Devs, including the lead, think they are so imaginative and forward thinking when in fact they are not. They actually seem to have gone backwards in innovation and creativity. Like how they advertised jumping like it was a brand new thing they invented and were the only ones doing in an mmo when in fact they were over a decade behind the times. It's like they have never played a western game or a number of eastern ones before in their lives.

SE needs to remember they do not lead the pack anymore and maybe step it up a notch to try to get that prestige back. Just my 2 cents.

I've played all the classic Final Fantasy titles several times. While Final Fantasy is a story franchise, things like the 100 or so quests between ARR and Heavensward, which are largely things like sniffing chocobos, are in no way how the Final Fantasy franchise was built.

Quest bloat in older content is absolutely a problem in retaining new players in a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

What a shame, you have to roleplay a waiter doing fetch quests for 100+ hours of your life (feels more like 200 hours to me because its so darn boring) to access most of the locations this beautiful online world.

If there's anyone at square enix reading, please try to understand, fetch quests don't belong in a game, it is worse than work. Why are you forcing us to do endless A to B to A quests and sometimes even A to B to A to C to A quests. There's even a quest that's like A to B to C to D to E to F to G to A at moghome. I mean, seriously, why? When you use it to gate what could be good and useful content (dungeons, raids, access to locations, access to npc's with token exchange), then it is degrading to the players to have to slough through it. If I want to do repetitive things I'll go do real life work, something I can actually feel good about doing. Filler content is made to take up the time of gamers and is done by game developers because it takes little effort, FINE, but if you gate content behind such trash content, it is so insulting.

If I don't like MSQ and fetch quests why don't I quit? Because I liked crafting, the artwork and graphics of the online world and its objects, and housing. Yeah I put MSQ off as long as I could, did 1-3 main story quests at a time, took week-long breaks from MSQ, and frequently shut down the game in frustration or because I was LITERALLY falling asleep from boredom, b*tched about how stupid the story is and fetch quests are, until about half a year later I reached the beautiful city of Idyllshire and finally saw a location in FF14 that almost made me feel like I could be engrossed in the world the same way I was engrossed by the well-built worlds in older FF games. But when I finally reached there I also felt bitter. Bitter I allowed myself to be compelled to put up with endless fetch quests and (mostly) poorly written story and voice-acting because I wanted things like access to Mog couch furniture and used to want things like the token gear. Bitter that much of the content offered by Idyllshire was no longer useful to me since I already had all my crafters at 60 and fully overmelded and no longer needed most of the token gear. And bitter there's still dozens of quests to go to access more gated content.

And a little off-topic, but Square-Enix also apparently put a lot of boring fetch quests in the new Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, and I hear the story is cr*p also.

I had to read that first post twice to understand what the complaint was.

Dude, in no way or form is all content going to be unlocked straight off the get go in any story driven game. Even less so when the game in question is an MMO. Most of the fetch quests are basically side-quests. Side stories that unlock stuff are good as they help you level up along the way.

TC dude, this is a Final Fantasy game, take it all in and relax. If all you want from the game is the action while throwing everything else out the window I am afraid that this is neither the game nor even the genre for you.

If you want to just get to the good parts of the story then, again, take it all in slow and relax, the game is not going anywhere any time soon.

The development team learned their lesson from the tidal wave of fetch quest complaints that they had to weather this expansion, the next expansion will not have the same issue. At least not as bad as this one did. I would know, whenever I see moogles in this game a spark of hatred lights up and would punch them to oblivion if they ask something from me in their "I am cute so do things for me" manner.

All in all, take a break from the game, relax, and come back when you want more FF story goodness.

It greatly saddens me that the whole point for the so-called 'fetch quests' in the game is completely lost on most players in this thread - it's part of your job description as an adventurer! Back when you first started the game and signed up at the Adventurer's Guild, the guild proprietor actually tells you right then and there what you are in for - helping people with mundane tasks! And that "rarely will the work be of realm-shaking importance" (paraphrasing how Miounne stated it in Gridania), but that it was still important, as it helps build trust and rapport with the people of Eorzea, a people who have experienced a horrible cataclysm caused by foreign powers.

Even the much-maligned Titan-lead up questline had a method to it's madness - the reason you were being made to do all that running around was again to establish trust with the Company of Heroes, a mercenary force who were the only ones to defeat Titan previously, but they paid a huge price in blood to do so. Thus, this cocky adventurer who claimed to have taken down a Primal already comes up willing to take on Titan, of course they're going to be suspicious and not exactly willing to believe they could do it, and they especially did not want yet another life or mind lost to Titan on their conscience again. Actions speak louder than words after all. So it was a trust building exercise, to show you really did have the stamina and drive to do so, even after doing all that messing around getting food (and even if you failed, at least you would have had a nice 'final meal' beforehand!;)).

After all, the Warrior of Light's altruism and willingness to help others in need regardless of how trivial their problem actually is the reason why no one believes the Syndicate's lies at the end of 2.55

- the Warrior of Light killing the Sultana? It just isn't possible, the person who helps those in need regardless of how hard or trivial it is? It's inconceivable to actually have done such a thing! It's clearly a Syndicate plot to discredit them and seize power for themselves! If we hadn't spent all that time fetching trivial things for people, and had just been some mercenary who happened to kill a few Primals and assorted Garleans, we would not have been given that same benefit of the doubt by the common people.

And even if you completely ignore the narrative reasons for fetch quests, they also have a gameplay function as to why they drag the story out - as they were designed to be the main method of gaining EXP. Instead of joining a party and level grinding on mobs over and over again for hours on end, you simply play through the main scenario and sidequests and gain exp that way. Of course this resulted in the main scenario having to be padded a bit with filler quests at times out of necessity, but even those ones are usually handled in a more humorous light (such as the aforementioned Titan quests, or the equally-maligned Moogle quests in Heavensward).

Really, if you come into this game expecting nothing but mindless battles and stomping through random environments without a care in the world, you will be disappointed - everything you do in here has a story-reason for doing so, cause and effect and all that. Always there is a reason why you're being sent into that Allagan ruin or Garlean fortress or abandoned mine. It's a FF game after all, and FF games are story-based RPGs, even the MMO titles like FFXI and XIV. How hard is it to understand that?