war nerfs(srs bznz pls)

Defiance is compared with shield oath, rampart with inner beast. Rampart and inner beast provide similar mitigation over time, paladin has Shelton for every buster that's physical, a 1200 potency self cure that boosts to 1500 with convalescence, a chance to block or parry regular attacks, all things considered they're pretty equal. The gap lies in utility, which paladin is VERY versatile in, dark not so much. Mitigation wise they are all equal, but it's just easier to do x fight with y tank. However I won't argue anymore, I've filled this thread with rebuttals and will cease to do so. Good debate though

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Originally Posted by Aurius

Defiance is compared with shield oath,

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Alright I had to stop here. They don't operate anywhere close to the same.
And you're not the first person I've seen claim this, though oddly it's mostly misinformed healers.
Defiance offers no actual damage reduction, so for anything that isn't going to outright do more damage to you than you have HP, there's little reason to ever actually tank in Defiance with the exception of some snap enmity.
While Shield Oath is nothing more than a permanent defensive CD that can be used a lot less often than it is. Simply turning it on to reduce large amounts of damage, then turning it back to sword when than moment is over.

They haven't actually specified what the changes will be yet, correct? I kind of feel like a lot of this speculation is jumping the gun a little. It's not like SE's going to completely destroy the job and rebuild it from scratch (again). If anything, the changes will be minor. In most practical application settings, the vast majority of Warriors won't even notice the difference, and it will be business as usual.

The same can be said on the Pld and Drk side of the table. Is it possible for them to make adjustments? Sure. Will those adjustments be so major that they actually make a difference to the way we play those tanks? I highly doubt it. Most of their deficiencies are built deeply into the fabric of their design (which is not necessarily a bad thing). To make any meaningful adjustments would mean making radical changes to a substantial part of their tool kits. That's just not going to happen. It's too much work. It's far easier for SE to make minor tweaks here and there than re-scale the entire equation. Right now, the easiest changes they could make are on War's end, so that's what we can likely expect to see.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

WAR is not "well designed", its abilities are just more powerful without any logic...why do defensive cooldowns give you an offensive buff ?

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The best defense is a good offense. \( ' - '

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Originally Posted by Reynhart;3837157

WAR is not "well designed", its abilities are just more powerful without any logic...[I

why do defensive cooldowns give you an offensive buff ?[/I]

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Isn't this how warriors are in final fantasy in general, they are to fight on the front-lines taking damage and dealing big damage back. There's lore saying "...Wielding greataxes and known as warriors, these men and women learn to harness their inner-beasts and translate that power to unbridled savagery on the battlefield."

Their skills matches their name and reflect on what a wariror is really well. high hp tanky fighters that can deal lots of damage.

Vengeance provides more defense when taking dmg and deals some dmg back just like its definition: infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge:

Warriors can build stacks of wrath until they become infuriated and enables them to unleash inner beast which releases immense power to fight back. Or be more offensive with your stacks to make them uncontrollable, enabling them to deliver fell cleave. To me their skills really define what it means to be a warrior and I like it. When you play warrior properly you actually FEEL like a warrior. Their defense is their offense and their offense is their defense. A force to be reckoned with.

SE should improve and enhance the identity of paladin and dark knight better in this game.

The notion that WAR is OT and PLD is MT is silly because there are many fights where you don't even ever need OT. Think Alexander normal, many Hard Mode primals (Ravana and many 2.x ones). In those cases, OT is just an extra DPS for the most part unless something goes wrong.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

Isn't this how warriors are in final fantasy in general, they are to fight on the front-lines taking damage and dealing big damage back.

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Not in general, no. That definition is not universal across all Final Fantasy games. You have to keep in mind that Warriors are not necessarily tanks in every game in the series, because tanking, as a concept, does not exist in a lot of the games. There's no enmity table in most of the series. So role divisions is not quite so clear cut as this.

As for the FFxiv lore, 'unbridled savagery' does not necessarily mean high attack power. I could rip off an opponent's arm and brandish it as a weapon on the battle field, and that would fit the definition of 'unbridled savagery.' That said, my attack power with a severed limb would not match that of a trained soldier with a proper weapon. Further, the lore of Warriors, on the whole, is wildly inaccurate. 'Unbridled,' by definition, would imply that they cannot control themselves and mindlessly attack without relent. The unprecedented synergy of War skills could be considered mindless, and the struggle of Curious George to control himself is a big nod in this direction, but the entire Warrior quest line revolves around taming your inner beast and retaining control in combat. Achieving that goal is the exact opposite of what would be expected from the lore definition of Warrior. Obviously, SE took some liberties with it.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

The notion that WAR is OT and PLD is MT is silly because there are many fights where you don't even ever need OT.

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This is silly regardless, because there is nothing a Pld can do in the MT position that a War can't do just as well, if not better. Even back in the 2.0 days, War was often designated OT for the sake of higher Dps, but a War-War party was just as viable, especially without the current Limit Break restrictions.

I think PLD and DRK are getting severly undervalued in this topic. In the hardest fights in this game during progression, both DRK and PLD are extremely valuable and running a double WAR comp is probably strictly worse despite what this topic would have you believe. The only thing that needs to be fixed is PLD + DRK comps if that is even something that needs fixing. Some comps just don't work in this game during early progression.

Warriors have no real disadvantage, so yeah, they could use more nerfs or the other tanks could use some buffs.

Paladin is my preferred tank, but I barely use it anymore. It doesn't bring much except a bit of utility in crisis situations that shouldn't happen, like keeping the last healer alive with Clemency and using Hallowed Ground to buy some extra time or eat a mechanic solo. It's got a pile of CDs that are all basically the same idea and not much better than Inner Beast. Divine Veil is worthless except to see people's health move a little less on an aoe that they were going to be healed for anyway.

Warrior is the best right now both for real tanking and for "meh don't need a tank, just dps" tanking. There needs to be better balance so that it's more about preference instead of warriors just being better. They definitely weren't nerfed too far and could use some more tweaking. Before warriors were reaching the point where they didn't even need healers. It was ridiculous.