Raids for Disciples of Hand and Land...

This looks like an awesome idea, with some touching up it really has a lot of potential, would be so exciting to have a different style of "raid content" like this.

Thumbs up!

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Originally Posted by Agoven

I thought up of a good example I think would do great for a raid specifically designed for hand and land classes.

There's an unstable mine that is on the verge of collapse. You need to make it through to the other end in the allotted time and gather a series of certain items on your way through. You need to use hand and land classes to break down rock barriers with miner, fish broken lines with a fisher, reconnect lines with weaving or leather, and gather items along the way.

Very time, class, and puzzle oriented raid. No need for monsters...the danger of the mine collapsing/flooding/etc and killing you if you aren't moving through efficiently should be enough. Areas where you must pass through within x number of seconds and you can't go back cause behind you will collapse etc.

Only certain gems and crafting items may be find in this raiding mine...and used for crafting purposes maybe?

I would also imagine if this sort of raid gets made that it will be random puzzle generated dungeon sort of scenario.

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I like that idea...

Or as we say in the office.. Careful!! Genius thinking like that might get you fired.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Crafts should not be considered real classes. They never should have. No game I have ever seen has thought of them as such until FFXIV came along.

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This isn't a reason to not do it now, but I'm sure you knew that.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Developing something like this would take time away from developing content that will actually be used by 90% of the player base.

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Here is the self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't make new content for things that people don't currently play, and they will continue to not play it. Ever think that if fun, engaging, party-based content existed that maybe people would play those classes more and they wouldn't have to be relegated to "side-jobs"?

Of course you didn't. Let's only spend time on the things you already like, so that we can be sure no one's time is being wasted.

I don't know if it needs to be this system exactly, but it's a neat concept. I remember when they were originally hyping this game in Alpha/Beta that they said they wanted all disciplines to work closely together, and by that I thought they meant that the crafters and gatherers were going to have a significant impact in "end game" content. Right now all they're good for in terms of high level content is gathering materials to make not-so-very-special high level gear and catalysts for materia.

I don't like referring to the "W" game too much, but they had some neat ideas, for fisherman at least, that only a high level fisherman could spawn a raid boss by fishing them up. One of them was pretty hilarious because you had to get hammered by drinking alcohol (made the screen all blurry) and THEN fish it up.

It sounds like gatherers and crafters will have a more significant role when the free companies come about, as they will have an active role in building player housing and other things. I just think it would be cool if they could be utilized in an actual boss fight somehow.

'Sounds like a really nice idea, to me. So.. yeah, one like or so.

Sounds like Moblin Maze Mongers.

I'm all for it, so long as it's interesting/fun.

This is the type of variety I long for. Things to mix up the norm and try something new. The fact that it sounds preety fun and challenging is also a enticing. haha

When it comes to crafting and gathering I always figured they could act as the knowledgable ally within a dungeon that offers help or war/magic through areas that they themselves would not be able to get past.

Basically Botanist would be able to find secret paths under the ground, Miners would be able to find paths in the rock, and Fishermen would have the ability to seek out water sources that may be hiding secret paths. They would also have other basic dungeon crawling ability such as diarming traps and such but overall they would be a supportive role with the ability to find secrets that war/magic would not be able to find.

As for Crafters, they are actually doing a suggestion I had way back with having crafting tables in dungeons which would allow crafters to synth unique mats but in the same sense there could be unique workshops in dungeons where you have to synth a specific item in order to unlock a new area to discover rare recipes and such.

Seeing as how they are doing the dungeons I can imagine a lot of concepts coming out of it, I imagine that it will be possible to have a lot of different missions for each dungeon with the possibility of unlocking new missions when you find secret areas or defeat specific mobs in said dungeon. I am hoping though that when they flesh out the dungeons they'll make it accessible to all diciplines, not saying every dungeon has to be WMHL accessible but have have WM, WMHL, HL, L, WL, ML, mix it up and such. It would be neat if they implemented dungeons where perhaps the "gods" forbid the use of physical attacks so only magical damage works or vice versa. Maybe some dungeons have restriction but if you bring a hand/land of the right type to figure out the mystery behind the restriction you'll be able to unlock it. There are a lot of possibilities and with how well they've been handling changes I can hope that a majority of these ideas would make it into the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agoven

I thought up of a good example I think would do great for a raid specifically designed for hand and land classes.

There's an unstable mine that is on the verge of collapse. You need to make it through to the other end in the allotted time and gather a series of certain items on your way through. You need to use hand and land classes to break down rock barriers with miner, fish broken lines with a fisher, reconnect lines with weaving or leather, and gather items along the way.

Very time, class, and puzzle oriented raid. No need for monsters...the danger of the mine collapsing/flooding/etc and killing you if you aren't moving through efficiently should be enough. Areas where you must pass through within x number of seconds and you can't go back cause behind you will collapse etc.

Only certain gems and crafting items may be find in this raiding mine...and used for crafting purposes maybe?

I would also imagine if this sort of raid gets made that it will be random puzzle generated dungeon sort of scenario.

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What an awesome idea!! :D

I really like this idea, and I think it merits further investigation. I would, however, like to take a step back and try to pin down why this is a controversial and extremely dangerous idea. What it comes down to is versatility: Let us look at the Ifrit battle for a moment. Everyone is up in arms because "the only" way to do it is to bring 4 Lancers. The truth is though, if you don't have Lancers, you can bring Archers, or Pugilists, or any other damage dealer and get the job done with a little practice and preparation.

Conversely, look at any content involving DoL/DoH, it's too in-volatile, it's next to impossible to come up with an idea that doesn't literally need a given class. Unlike a Pugilist doing a Lancer's "job" in Ifrit, a fisherman isn't going to walk up to that iron deposit and "do close enough".

That being said, I don't think we should abandon the idea just because it's hard. With some work, I think truly interesting hybrid and crafting only raids would be possible; it's just something that is going to take a lot of care to be done correctly.