DF Tank Experience

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Originally Posted by LegitChamp

7 - Yep, everything is typically the tank's fault. Unfortunately, it is what you signed up for and why you usually get 2-3 comms when the run goes smoothly.

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Sometimes I do a whole run perfectly...and I get no commendations. Other times hate will be wonky and I'll get two. In castrum meridium roulette today the other tank was like "I'm MT" immediately. I hate arrogant tanks that do this btw. I put up sword oath and on the first train he died and they went for the healer. I covered the healer and took over. On the first boss he died again. I switched to shield oath and took over. On the next boss I assumed main tank role without saying anything. At the start of the fight he engaged a few seconds later than me and used provoke (sigh). Every time it was up he would use it again and said "ffs this pld...nez use sword oath you're making aggro wonky". There was only me and him at the top of the threat list and there was nothing much between us although every time I used Halone it would put him back a little. At the end he said "nez just quit tanking" and I received 0 commendations.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

Don't expect two DDs to abandon the opportunity to use three to six 300~500 potency-per-GCD actions each to follow your marking scheme when your single target combo only does 200 potency per GCD.

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If you are on the cusp of claiming aggro and you do an action that you know won't kill the enemy quickly and will have you and the healer get hate it's not worth a potential wipe. A lot of dps in DF just button mash from what I've seen so prob have no idea how to control their enmity. The main focus isn't to get a bit more dps and stroke your epeen imo. The most important thing is making sure the tank keeps enmity at all times (unless you pulling it for a second means nothing cause the mob is like 5% hp or something) and that the healer is only healing primarily the tank, even if that means the dd's do slightly less damage. There is no excuse for not looking at your threat level period regardless of your job. Dead dps = no dps. dead healer = dead tank

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

"ffs this pld...nez use sword oath you're making aggro wonky"

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Perfect time to respond, "Sure, as long as you quit dying all the time."

And yeah, sometimes you get a ton of commies and you have no idea why (pity commendations?), and other times you don't get any despite doing a 99% perfect job.

(Also, you can type out your entire response, select all the text and cut it out, then type something short in the response box -- i tend to use "Placeholder" -- and post it. Edit the post and paste in the text you wrote. ^^ The post length limit only applies when you make a post, not when you edit it. This is usually more effective, since you also have a posts-per-day limit, based on your main character's level.)

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Originally Posted by Noxifer

Perfect time to respond, "Sure, as long as you quit dying all the time."

And yeah, sometimes you get a ton of commies and you have no idea why (pity commendations?), and other times you don't get any despite doing a 99% perfect job.

(Also, you can type out your entire response, select all the text and cut it out, then type something short in the response box -- i tend to use "Placeholder" -- and post it. Edit the post and paste in the text you wrote. ^^ The post length limit only applies when you make a post, not when you edit it. This is usually more effective, since you also have a posts-per-day limit, based on your main character's level.)

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Tbh I don't usually get involved with all the childish troll comments. Usually what happens is some moron starts doing that to cover his own shortcomings, and because I never say anything I guess the sheep in the party just go along with it. I always think to myself if I am rude (even if they were rude to me first) I may get vote kicked. Especially with the cancerous band wagoners that are in DF sometimes

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

If you are on the cusp of claiming aggro and you do an action that you know won't kill the enemy quickly and will have you and the healer get hate it's not worth a potential wipe.

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If there are hate issues, and the healer is about to take a mob off you, you're not flashing enough.

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

The main focus isn't to get a bit more dps and stroke your epeen imo. The most important thing is making sure the tank keeps enmity at all times

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BRD
Venomous Bite (DoT) on three mobs: 930 potency
Windbite (DoT) on three mobs: 990 potency
Later, 50% of DoT crit ticks grant a free, oGCD attack, 100 potency per mob.

Average GCD: 320 potency, before considering free oGCD attacks


DRG
Phlebotomize (DoT) on three mobs: 1414 potency
Chaos Thrust combo (DoT): 1150 potency
Full Thrust combo: 816 potency

Phlebotomize advantage over Full Thrust combo, per GCD: 199 potency


MCH
Lead Shot (DoT) on three mobs: 1470 potency
Optimistic CleanShot-SlugShot-CleanShot with ammo: 640 potency

Lead Shot advantage over optimistic combo, per GCD: 276 potency


MNK
Touch of Death (DoT) on three mobs: 891 potency
Bootshine-TrueStrike-Demolish (DoT): 836 potency
Boothshine-TrueStrike-SnapPunch: 572 potency

MNK maths complicated by Greased Lightning


NIN
Mutilate on three mobs: 1296 potency
Aeolian Edge combo: 804 potency

Mutilate advantage over Aeolian Edge combo, per GCD: 164


PLD
Rage of Halone combo with Shield Oath: 518 potency
Average GCD: 172 potency

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It's not "a bit more". It's a lot more. If you give up one Rage of Halone combo to use three Flashes instead, you give up 518 potency in exchange for 984 potency with 2xNIN or 1656 potency with 2xMCH, on top of what they would be doing with a 1-at-a-time scheme.

Do your job and flash more, so they can do theirs.

I never had too much trouble, though I'm hearing recent changes have made it harder for low level tanks to maintain hate, but I haven't tested that, nor do I think a test with sync'd down gear is representative of tanks at that actual level.

I only ever had the same few problems as tank that recur in early-mid pug queues.

1. Some people don't announce what they want in a pug queue (fast runs or full exp runs), or announce AFTER they're already p***ed off. Might result in non-tanks forcing pulls onto me, or people leaving without saying a word. In the case of wanting fast runs and choosing anger, the complaint often comes from people that don't realise that Leveling Roulette primarily exists to pad out the numbers for people who queued for one specific dungeon they need. It can happen, but you should not go into that queue if you're not going to have any tolerance for the people that actually NEED to be there, whether it's for the story, company hunting log, the side loot or whatever else. They are the main reason the queue or the scaled completion bonus exist.

2. Dungeons that exist outside of the main story have a lot more confused people running around. The Sunken Temple of Qarn is probably the best example. I've seen two wipes on just the first first boss before even one DPS decided to read chat and help with wespers or stop dying to doom. I've seen the statue heads die as much as 5 times before a DPS realised that the rest of the party was trying to put it somewhere specific. I've seen a DPS enrage toward the tank for not getting pulling the boss all around the arena to pick up the squishy statue adds. I've seen someone who wanted me dead IRL for mentioning the former and latter. (I mean I lost my patience too but it does get a little unfathomable when people seem to play with their chat log hidden)

3. Ties into 2, but people don't look at mechanics preceding a dungeon. It seems like it's fairly common not to, but it's very poor form in front of strangers, and poorer still if you wait as late as the bosses gate to tell everyone to stop and get filled in on what to do. It's actually quicker for yourself if you go and do your own independant research and find the bullet points or video, rather than waiting for a type up from a party member. Not to mention the DPS of all people could have done the little checking they needed many times over for the duration they waited in queue.

I am the enemy of sending people to youtube to get info about dungeon.
It's not that har to do well in a dungeon, especially dungeons aren't savage.
Someone could say a thing or two about mechanics and it will be all right.

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Originally Posted by Nezkeys79

1) DPS who pull before the tank (and healers who heal them before I can flash them off them)

2) After initial shield lob and I'm waiting for mobs to gather @me I see aoe's/heals before mobs are in flash range

3) After initial shield lob enemy the does an aoe but I see dps and healer are already attacking it from outside the aoe while i'm running out of it.

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1) they die, it's simple.

2) they die, it's way to simple.

3) not my problem, they die, I'm cool. It's simple.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

1) they die, it's simple.

2) they die, it's way to simple.

3) not my problem, they die, I'm cool. It's simple.

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Do you say anything or just stay silent while they die? And how do you react if they call you a shit tank for letting them die, then vote kick you for even speaking?(If that's ever happened to you)

I'm an advocate of letting others be the assholes, because I'm an adult and I would like to at least act like one. Does it annoy me when a dps pull ahead of myself (and I pull PRETTY fast)? yes. Do I still take things off them? yes, because it's my job. It's a waste of time to sit there, watch someone die, get raised then argue about it for the next half an hour.

now. people need to understand lower level tanking does suck a bit post recent change, war and drk get their enmity stance early, which is good. PLD is kind of awkward. sword oath is fine on a single target boss. what's really bad is before you get your Halone, and the period right before you get shield oath but when dps get their dmg buff traits around lvl 40 (and you're 39). So you end up relying a lot more on flash than you do later on. But it would be nice if more people are aware of this and at least let the tank do the pull.