Healer Enmity increase?

The tanks that are seeing themselves generating less hate than before are generally the ones that were rocking STR setups in the past (which, prior to 3.2, was the way to generate the most hate)

This patch was basically their way of forcing all tanks down to around the VIT tank's level of hate generation. So yeah, there are going to be some problems with that, especially if a tank is up against a party that outlevels them.

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Now, if you compare the old full strength tanks with today's vitality tanks you will find they're very much on par in terms of damage when using equivalent gear.

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Absolutely not true. Did you ever even try a STR build pre-3.2? The difference is enormous.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

The tanks that are seeing themselves generating less hate than before are generally the ones that were rocking STR setups in the past (which, prior to 3.2, was the way to generate the most hate)

This patch was basically their way of forcing all tanks down to around the VIT tank's level of hate generation. So yeah, there are going to be some problems with that, especially if a tank is up against a party that outlevels them.



Absolutely not true. Did you ever even try a STR build pre-3.2? The difference is enormous.

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Shouldn't the difference be roughly 15%? That's about how much attack power was lost by STR tanks in this change.

I don't tank but there certainly seems to be "stances" that certain tanks use that make pulling hate as a SCH very easy. I always try & give the tank time to establish hate & obviously know not to use healing magic during a pull or HoT before a pull. However, I have found myself taking mobs off tanks recently, even using DPS in Cleric Stance, which was very rare before.

It has been only minimal concern in Midas but is definitely more frequent in other duties. Having to hold back is stressful (as I feel like I could be doing more) but if it helps the tank then it has to be done. I'm only i205 - ish so it's not that there's a huge ilevel boost.

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Originally Posted by Pells

Shouldn't the difference be roughly 15%? That's about how much attack power was lost by STR tanks in this change.

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War (most of time) OT here.
I did some tests on dummies.
Before 3.2 I was at ~1350 dps 5 min parse (i210 full STR)
After 3.2, it dropped to ~1050 (full VIT this time, since full STR was even worst). That represents a loss of around 22%. This is if I OT. In the case of MTing (so all the 4 men contents and fights with 2 bosses/tank swap), the loss is even bigger. Now it is impossible to tank in dps stance (not enough aggro generated). So I have to switch (at least for some times) in tank stance, which makes the dps loss even bigger.

So yes, offensive wars lost tons of dps. We are far from the 15% quoted before...

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Shouldn't the difference be roughly 15%? That's about how much attack power was lost by STR tanks in this change.

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I don't know exactly, but when the difference is great enough that you can eyeball it (without needing various potentially unscrupulous things), that makes it significant. If you are right, 15% is a *very* significant decrease.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I don't know exactly, but when the difference is great enough that you can eyeball it (without needing various potentially unscrupulous things), that makes it significant. If you are right, 15% is a *very* significant decrease.

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If you look at it from a raw attack power perspective and ignore secondaries completely:

WAR with full i210 Slaying accessories - 1,043 STR and 827 VIT = 1,043 attack power pre-3.2

WAR with full i210 Fending accessories - 808 STR and 1,072 VIT = floor(808*0.45) + floor(1,072*0.45) = 363 + 482 = 845 attack power post-3.2

845AP / 1043AP = 81.0%

Assuming all stats are equal (or approximately equal) between all three tanks, all tanks lost 19% raw attack power when 3.2 was launched. That sounds pretty accurate in my head since all tanks lost approximately 55% of their primary stat weight on accessories and approximately 10% on their main body pieces.

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Originally Posted by EdgeFayth

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So yes, offensive wars lost tons of dps. We are far from the 15% quoted before...

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Does this mean they changed more than the STR/VIT/AP formula? Did AP to damage formula change as well?

I have tanked Midas 4 many times and some of those times on the last phase have been different.
As a paladin I see that my emnity is pretty good. Most of the fight the rest of the party stays under 25%.
I have 110 weapon and my average ilvl is 215.
When I'm tanking Midas 4 my emnity is great. At the start of the last phase I sometimes have trouble initiating emnity.
From what I've seen is healers hate have not increased, they just need to wait untill the tank establishes good hate on the boss.
A few healers go balls deep to top off 25% HP.....

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Originally Posted by eaudaemon

I don't know if its just me, but I noticed an increase in healer enmity since the release of the new patch, it got so bad one time that during the 4th floor Midas run that the tanks were having a hard time getting enmity off me.

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after the raidbuster, after you beat the 4 mini bosses and the boss transformed in his super-form: wait a moment with your heals so the tank can build enmity. at this moment all people have 0 enmity and if you start with heavy aoe healing, yeah, then the tank will have a hard time with getting enmity off you. until the tank buster nobody except the tank will get damage, so no problem with waiting a moment before you aoe heal.

if the tank loses enmity at any other moment of the fight he is just bad :x

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Couple this with the enmity boost gain, and there's no reason tanks should be losing aggro.

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Most have not yet accepted new tanking meta, holding hate in DPS stance became harder than it was before. Instead sitting in dps stance 24/7 you now actually need to build some lead in tank stance and then you can go dps stance, but just for a while as healers/dd's are slowly creeping up in enmity list. So now we actually need to stance dance in and out depending on enmity lead/boss rotation, i kinda like it as now enmity actually matters again.