If we're going to front the idea that DRK's main contribution to its group is its personal DPS while having the poorest utility, shouldn't it have the best DPS a la MNK? Currently the tank with the best DPS overall, ALSO has the best utility.
Since DRK's DPS is not the problem and WAR is readily identifiable as the "DPS tank", DRK needs a raid utility buff. It just does. If current content masks that by proping DRK up (high magic damage and dps checks, two things SE has said they are shying away from this tier) it won't actually fix anything, and with PLD being buffed, its going to be a harder thing to justify.
tldr DRKs dps is not the issue and if the content masks its crap OT utility by pigeonholing it into MTing, thats not a solution.
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02-21-2016, 06:39 PMSyzygian
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02-21-2016, 07:28 PMDoudousteve
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't dark have the best MT damage?
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02-21-2016, 08:05 PMWolfKidSo? He's talking about when they're off tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doudousteve
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02-21-2016, 08:59 PMDBelmontI don't get why we don't get more fights like these. I liked the scenarios where MT/OT had a minimal distinction and tanking was more universal.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
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02-21-2016, 09:17 PMDuelleThing is that if you even out utility, you still have DPS variances. While you say it's not an issue, the spotlight is going to fall on that if you were the make utility equal/close to equal between WAR, DRK and PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syzygian
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02-21-2016, 09:27 PMSyzygianIt does. And WAR has the best OT damage. So why doesn't DRK at least have equal utility to WAR? WAR doesn't lose its utility when it goes MT, why should DRK lose theirs when they go OT?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doudousteve
This whole thread is about DRK's OT raid utility. It has none, that's the problem. It has nothing to do with DPS. No good DRK on the planet has ever ever ever complained about their job's DPS. Our DPS is pretty fucking baller in the hands of a good player.
If you're in a static and your static needs an OT, the MT slot is already filled, there is ZERO reason to take a DRK over a PLD or WAR. Its not that it needs the SAME utility, it just needs something different but of equal value depending on the encounter.
If you need an MT, yeah, DRK brings the highest DPS in that department, but WAR is RIGHT on its heels, with arguably better utility, and if its a PLD, well... they just got a substantial MT DPS buff... and they also bring great utility.
Its a hole in their toolkit and its synergy. DRK is not a competitive OT.
So DRK should continue to bring nothing to the raid as an OT? I'm not following you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
DPS is DPS. Its less than, greater, equal to, whatever. But utility comes in all forms and its value varies quantitatively and qualitatively, which is fine. Having none at all is not.
In the spirit of evenhandedness- DRK's MT utility is fine. You have an INT RoH, and a non-combo-locked, oGCD Path at no cost to DPS (with the caveat of needing a parry, which is not hard to get at all on DRK), all on the same tank, and both stackable with RoH and SP (synergy!). That's good. Its competitive. And you don't need to make Reprisal usable as an OT to fix this (although that'd be the boring easy way out that SE would undoubtedly gobble up, and the most common (uncreative) suggestion people seem to make), otherwise I'd have named it "Dear Square-Enix: You Forgot About Making Reprisal Usable As An Off-Tank", but you need to give it *something* else. That would actually make DRK unique among the tanks as it would give it different utility depending on OT or MT. Which would be interesting. But I digress.
Suppose there's an encounter design that somehow EXTREMELY favors a WAR MT. And you don't want to bring another WAR because its an overlap of utility where you could get extra utility from one of the other two tanks. DRK offers nothing here.
And then there's the fact that a DRK/PLD composition has no synergy whatsoever, and while that's another can of worms, its an indirectly related issue.
DRK is only valuable as an MT, period, and thats a problem. Imagine if you took a PLD OT and stripped it of DV, Clemency, Cover, Stoneskin etc. ...That'd suck right? Bringing nothing to the raid other than personal DPS and RoH?
PLD and WAR keep their utility no matter what role you stick them in. If a DRK wants to get into a serious raid group, he/she better hope they need an MT and not an OT, and if they need an OT and not a MT, he/she better hope no one else is trying out for that spot (assuming candidates have equal gear/skill etc.) -
02-21-2016, 09:32 PMTanathya
DRK should've been the de facto OT, due to being made a tank in the first place. Well it isn't, but it doesn't even have any utility whatsoever. This isn't new, but it was ignored by the PLD (understandable) complains.
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02-21-2016, 09:44 PMSpookyGhostTo be fair:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanathya
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/W...Final_Fantasy) -
02-21-2016, 10:16 PMCarstienI'll give you a great reason why they didn't make that horrific change.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniPrinny
Monk puts up blunt res down. DRK is doing his combo, puts up slash res down. The int debuff cannot stack, would be too strong, so the result is dragon kick is erased, mnk damage lowered. Then monk uses it again, delirium erased, drk damage lowered.
Starting to see the problem? -
02-21-2016, 10:22 PMMiniPrinnyWhile we're at it, Dark Knights in the single player games have always been "tanks" with high HP, access to the most powerful defensive equipment, access to generally powerful melee weapons, and access to shields. Honestly, FFIX if anything was a disservice to the image of the Job.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost