Goad - the ability that doesn't exist

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

...its much better for the party to give it to a PLD than a BRD because BRD should NEVER need it.
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As others have said, you could always ask if there is a spare goad going around, but you should use your own utility first, as that is what others are expecting.

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As I've said in my posts, I do use the other utilities.

You are correct that brd, or for that matter anybody, doesn't NEED goad. Lots of parties complete dungeons without a single nin in the party at all! Amazing!

It is, though, no excuse to not use the abilities you have to benefit the party. When I see myself with <200 TP, invigorate already used, all other party members at 800 TP+, no goad on anyone (and no goad cast at all in the entire raid), I got to wonder.

The main problem with Goad is that it does nothing for the Ninja, therefore, why use it?

No, the ability that doesn't exist is Smoke Screen. I've never once seen another NIN actually use it. NIN's hate management can save the day so much in DF it's ridiculous, especially when the tank is new.

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Only War tank uses enough TP to need Goad.

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Quite wrong. If anything, my TP expenditure on WAR is the least of the three tanks, largely thanks to their GCDs that don't use TP.

The only time I ever use up more TP on WAR than I'm getting is when I spam Overpower, which happened far less for me once I got Steel Cyclone. On the other hand, I regularly run out of TP on the other two tanks. If you're *really* hurting for TP somehow on WAR, you even have Deliverequilibrium to pull some TP out of your butt.

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The main problem with Goad is that it does nothing for the Ninja, therefore, why use it?

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With that logic, Foe Requiem and Battle Voice have big problems too because they do nothing for the BRD :rolleyes:

I do think Requiem is flawed in that it will aggro things that aren't being fought (I would like it to work more like GEO bubbles in FFXI, where it only affects/aggros enemies that are on your hate list), but just because they don't help the user deal more damage doesn't mean they have a flaw.

To be honest I never expect a Goad on my WAR as of HW. And that is with aggressive Overpowering. TP management is a joke if pulls die timely, and even then Equilibrium + stack abilities let you float if need be. A Goad would probably be better used on some AOEing physical DPS. That being said, I never mind those Goads, it's some extra Overpowers after all, especially if stuff dies slow ;p..

How about a deal? You throw up Army's Paean for my rock bottom tp, and I'll give you a goad, sound fair? Bards shouldn't have a need for goad if there's another aoeing physical DPS, because Paean recovers tp for EVERYONE, and most times the other dps is out at the same time. Sorry, but your measly 110 isn't worth my goad when there's other heavier hitters in the party.

I've been leveling my BLM the last 3-4 days off and on. Guess how many Foe's I've seen from bards in my groups? One. Yes. One. And it was from an FC member. I'll start goading bards on my NIN when Bards start using Foe's for my BLM.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I do think Requiem is flawed in that it will aggro things that aren't being fought (I would like it to work more like GEO bubbles in FFXI, where it only affects/aggros enemies that are on your hate list), but just because they don't help the user deal more damage doesn't mean they have a flaw.

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All Bard party buff songs (except swiftsong) will put you on the agro list of any mob once you get into max range distance away. There doesn't need to be any other action or party hate. Sometimes I actually need to step out of the arena entry to pre cast Foe's to avoid accidentally pulling the boss.

I don't play War so can't compare to Pld which I do play. I only run low on TP on long fights or when I've overused Shield Lob to pull in stragglers. I can recover enough TP to continue by just using flash a couple of times. Shield bash overuse can also kill TP pretty quick.

For Brd, the situation is actually worse in level 50 encounters. At 60 WM slows down the action time enough to make a very big difference in TP recovery. At 50, it's very easy to run out.

I have no problem with Nin giving Goad to a tank (that needs it) instead of me. Unfortunately, the most common thing seems to be that it doesn't get used at all.

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How about a deal? You throw up Army's Paean for my rock bottom tp, and I'll give you a goad, sound fair?

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It really isn't fair, no.

Goad:
No DPS loss
No usage time, can be weaved off-GCD
Does not interfere with any other abilities

Paeon:
DPS loss
Costs time and MP to put up / maintain
Prevents the usage of another song, usually something more helpful like Requiem

That's not to say Paeon should never be used, but your insinuation that Goad should only be used in the same situations that Paeon should be is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

How about a deal? You throw up Army's Paean for my rock bottom tp, and I'll give you a goad, sound fair? Bards shouldn't have a need for goad if there's another aoeing physical DPS, because Paean recovers tp for EVERYONE, and most times the other dps is out at the same time. Sorry, but your measly 110 isn't worth my goad when there's other heavier hitters in the party.

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Well, if this is a dungeon (light party), then the only other DPS with the Brd is the Nin. I'm pretty sure that I will use more TP than a nin in an AOE situation (and they can't goad themselves anyway). In a raid boss encounter I agree. Use the ability that the situation requires.

And by the way, my "measly" 110 is multiplied by each mob in the group. What abilities do you use to impart net 660 damage to a group of 6 mobs (common big pull size)?

Gotta love the folks that say "i will start using goad when I see more brds using Foe's". I said this before, I'm not going to join in your race to the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Waeksyn

Only War tank uses enough TP to need Goad. But, like I said, I hardly ever see it used on Anyone, including War tanks.

As far as asking for it, I just finished a level 50 roulette. I asked the Nin several times for goad with no response. Finally, I told him that goad should be used on party members with low TP, especially in those big pull AOE times. His response? Oh? I never knew that at all. Frankly, I think I was being trolled.

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One problem that I tend to see is that people don't really read the chat log. They keep their eyes on the action and don't pay much attention to other stuff.