Praetorium warning for new players?

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Sorry if you have 2 hours to watch cutscenes, I don't and the fact you expect me to sit on my hands a wait as you read as slowly as humanly possible is asinine.

So who is in the right in this situation? No one. Its poor planning and a lack of common sense by SE.

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Yes it is poor planning on SEs behalf, but this isnt a 2 sided issue. dont get me wrong, you would be exactly right in any content except CM and Pre, because these dungeons are designed solely for beating the story. Even the rewards arent worth running these days (poetics), so if you want to be in these dungeons you should respect that people are in here for the story, not for levelling, not for loot/token rewards, they are there just to beat it and finish the story, which is unique to any other dungeon.

However, this is still SEs problem rather than the community's because I doubt my little paragraph is going to do anything to change anyone's mind, only SE has the power to enforce changes.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Yes it is poor planning on SEs behalf, but this isnt a 2 sided issue. dont get me wrong, you would be exactly right in any content except CM and Pre, because these dungeons are designed solely for beating the story. Even the rewards arent worth running these days (poetics), so if you want to be in these dungeons you should respect that people are in here for the story, not for levelling, not for loot/token rewards, they are there just to beat it and finish the story, which is unique to any other dungeon.

However, this is still SEs problem rather than the community's because I doubt my little paragraph is going to do anything to change anyone's mind, only SE has the power to enforce changes.

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But it IS a two-sided issue. You basically have two camps. One that wants to take their time and experience everything in total as written, and those that just want to get through it.

Why? Simple: SE is rewarding people to go back and run them again to help the new players out.

Up until now, the reward was quite substantial. So much so that it wasn't unusual to use roulette and get NO newbie bonus at all. And quite common that when there was someone new, it was only ONE or TWO in the group. With the current iLevels, those new players can be left behind in their cut scenes for the most part. And often do get left behind.

The problem is the incentive designed to bring veteran players back to carry the new players. We are reaching the point where that may no longer provide enough incentive, and then the DF queue for them may stagnate again. And if that happens, what will SE do? Put out a bigger carrot to bring those i200+ players back in there once a day...people who just want to get through it for the daily reward.

SE is sort of backed in to a corner with their design. Either they do something to encourage the carries, or they clamp down and force people to sit in queues all night to get the story done. The alternative is a complete revamp of the system somehow---they could provide NPC options like they eventually did with XI, or otherwise some sort of strong-arm tactic for the cut scenes (which will drive out veteran support in droves).

Until such time as they do something contrary to their trends up to this point, we will continue to have this sort of pissing contest because of the reward/time ratio involved with the current design.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

The problem isn't really about sides, that's been decided for you before you even log on. This is a multiplayer game, it's second M in MMORPG. By logging on you are agreeing to play with other players whether you like it or not. Thus the argument of 'two sides' is really an argument of 'me versus everyone else'. By forcing other players to play faster you are imposing yourself on their playtime, impacting their enjoyment every bit as much as they you. Conversely they can either choose to speed up or keep watching cutscenes and for all intents you have no say in the matter, just like they have no say in your want to play faster. So it boils down to patience. I have patience enough for someone to watch a cutscene, it barely takes any effort to wait. Just like I'm sure there were people patient enough for the jerks to watch the cutscenes when they were there their first times.

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But they have the option of teaming up with friends/LS/FC members, or doing it in PF.

Yes... that applies to both sides. However, there is a catch. Roulette---and it's subsequent bonus once a day. Without that incentive, or some sort of altruistic frame of mind---there isn't much reason for many to go back. And to get that reward, those veteran players HAVE to queue through the roulette.

And so the blade cuts both ways. Those needing it for story are rolling the dice by getting thrown into the roulette queue. Likewise, the returning players getting their daily bonus are getting the new runners thrown into their queues.

And that brings me back to my first statement. Those desiring to watch the cut scenes can go in as a premade...either by direct invites or posting a PF. Thus, there IS indeed a player driven solution to it. The problem is, many don't/can't spend the time to wait for the premade option. So, in a sense...the problem actually persists due to impatience. More so with some and less so with others...but impatience nonetheless.

The real issue?

The duty finder and anyone using it expecting anyone else to agree with their playstyle. Speed runners and storyline watchers alike. The only "warning" there should be is to warn people that random people won't have their same expectations. Both sides here are just silly.

what is Prae and castrum meant for ?...answer : completion of MSQ
what is duty finder there for ? : answer : to allow people to find other players to complete a given dungeon/instance etc etc
Why is there a reward given? : answer : ebcause some people will come to help you out on those instance
Do players that come to help know this ? : answer : yes they do


the whole point is...whoever comes to those instances that grant a reward do it or should do it only in order to help others to complete a given subject....mostly in Prae and Castrum.

If people are not mature enough to understand this concept no matter the amount of complains or posts on the Forum will help out on this occasion.

In short, players ARE selfish for the grand majority all they think of is themselves the rest is irrilevant. There are exceptions but is rare...

The most surprising thing is : if you have a friend or lets say a co-FC or co-LS member you will spend the time to help him out and even wait on CS..BUT take the same person without a LS or FC and you will not do it at all...how silly is that ?

dont tell me is not so because we all know is exactly so otherwise w^hy tell people to find friends or run content with friends or LS or FC? eh?

As one of those that was disappointed with the last dungeon (nah, I actually opted to watch the cutscenes since the party obviously didn't need me to complete it), I would agree it is pretty poor designing in hindsight to think that every time you run the dungeon you would need to endure 30+ minutes of cutscenes, if only to provide the graciousness of allowing that one person to experience the magnitude of the story at its climax. It would have been better to keep it and Castrum Meriandum off the roulette just to offset the number of people who run it solely for the bonus, leaving it to df the majority of new players.

And quite honestly, as a new player progressing at that point, PF and Fcs aren't really the easiest go-to option if you hadn't gone to the game prepared with acquaintances to help you. And every mission promotes Duty Finder exclusively that Party Finder would only exist if you happen to accidentally come across it in the menu options, which I think is also something that needs to be promoted a bit more.

Castrum/Prae should award 100-200 Eso each for doing it. However, each time you skip a CS, you lose 10-20 Eso per CS skipped. Since it takes so darn long with the CSes, it needs to be way more Esos than current dungeons. If you come in late, the game will act as though you skipped the CSes up to the point where the party is.

I started FF14 with Heavenward.
To be honest, i found it okay, that the mass a running through the instance and not looking or waiting for CS.
I just played it twice. First I watched the CS and second I played the boss encounter.

It is content older than 2 years. No one should expect to play it the way it was played during release.

Yes it was a bad concept to put that much CS in a Raid but SE learned and they never ever did it again.

Thank you all for taking the time to discuss this, no matter what your opinion on it all is. I went ahead and edited my first post to give my own perspective regarding some of the overall themes I've been seeing in some of the reply posts, so if you'd like to see my opinion please take a look.

Again, I'm really glad that this is being given attention and discussed! Thank you to everyone who's participated.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

The real issue?

The duty finder and anyone using it expecting anyone else to agree with their playstyle. Speed runners and storyline watchers alike. The only "warning" there should be is to warn people that random people won't have their same expectations. Both sides here are just silly.

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Except uh, no. People who want the story don't get pissy and throw fits if their run is slowed down in the slightest (which I have seen a truly embarrassing number of times). It's not a 2-sided issue. People need to grow the hell up or maybe understand what they're queuing for.