Would Duality working with combo effects be a bad idea?

I just don't see why the first hit gets its crit chance removed. That's dumb. Sure the bonus hit can be crit-less but why does it DROP YOUR CRIT TO 0 for the base attack?

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Originally Posted by Callback

I just don't see why the first hit gets its crit chance removed. That's dumb. Sure the bonus hit can be crit-less but why does it DROP YOUR CRIT TO 0 for the base attack?

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To make ADwaD look like a great thing. It's lazy.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

To make ADwaD look like a great thing. It's lazy.

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Yeah I can pretty much only see this point.
It makes building for critical hit rate kind of disappointing, considering that at high numbers with i210 gear (my ninja gear chart ends up with 966 critical hit rate at current BiS without Mistbreak) you're approaching +100% damage, meaning a critical hit pretty much gives you that duality bonus anyway.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

It makes building for critical hit rate kind of disappointing, considering that at high numbers with i210 gear (my ninja gear chart ends up with 966 critical hit rate at current BiS without Mistbreak) you're approaching +100% damage, meaning a critical hit pretty much gives you that duality bonus anyway.

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That's only, like, +60% damage, though.

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Originally Posted by Irysa

Hey, it can boost SMN dps by like, 5 or something!Why would it increase NIN's personal DPS above what the optimal is anyway? This doesn't actually make the best case scenario higher, it would only stand to very slightly increase DPS in suboptimal situations.

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Because less AC means more AE? I don't know how this would not be the case in a best case scenario.

You lose a Duality AE for some more non Duality AE's.

Looks zero sum to me.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

That's only, like, +60% damage, though.

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The 966 crit?

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Originally Posted by Irysa

You lose a Duality AE for some more non Duality AE's.

Looks zero sum to me.

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If you lose a Duality AE for a Duality AC, that's 640 potency swapped for 560, so -80.
The question is how many AC's would you then be changing to AE? At 2, you're gaining 80 potency, so as you say a zero sum. If you'd manage more than two before the next Duality was up, then I suppose you're "gaining" raw potency, but not by an awfully noticable amount.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

The 966 crit?

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Yeah, at 966 crit total, you should be doing 1.6x damage with crits. Really more like 1.59x, I guess. If you want crits that are twice the damage of your non-crits, you would need something like 2,360 crit rating total.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

The question is how many AC's would you then be changing to AE?

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The answer is zero, because you must always be averaging 2 AC per minute, or Huton will drop off, unless you're in a situation where it makes sense to hardcast Huton during an invuln phase. In a 350 second fight, you're going to have to use Huton about 10 times (assuming about 50s left on pull). If you Duality AC, and get full +duration, that can be two out of your ten times, but you still need to use it 8 more times before the end of the fight. Your next AE will not be Duality AE, but you can move an AE forward to do more in a row. Basically, all you've done is move from Duality AE plus 2x AC to 2x AE plus Duality AC. The effect of this on your potency per second depends entirely on how much crit you have, as this change only effects where the crits can go.

Edit: I did the math, and the current max-crit setup for NIN would make Duality AC + 2x AE less than 18 expected potency above Duality AE + 2x AC. So if you have to sacrifice pretty much anything to set this up, like, say, losing a single dot tick, you're losing potency. And, of course, this assumes that Duality AC would actually give full +60 duration.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yeah, at 966 crit total, you should be doing 1.6x damage with crits ... If you want crits that are twice the damage ... you would need something like 2,360 crit rating total.

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... damn, that's insane.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Edit: I did the math, and the current max-crit setup for NIN would make Duality AC + 2x AE less than 18 expected potency above Duality AE + 2x AC. So if you have to sacrifice pretty much anything to set this up, like, say, losing a single dot tick, you're losing potency. And, of course, this assumes that Duality AC would actually give full +60 duration.

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.... wow, I stand in awe.
At least it shows that, in theory, there would be a dps-gain. Irrelevant but to a parser, perhaps, but a gain nonetheless. A lot of people would go for that.

What resource did you use for the above information, by the way? I should perhaps familiarise myself with it to stop making such huge over-estimations in the future.

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Originally Posted by Sevyrr

What resource did you use for the above information, by the way? I should perhaps familiarise myself with it to stop making such huge over-estimations in the future.

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To get the crit formulas, I went to Dervy's blog: https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/damag...her-mechanics/

Max crit setup was from going to Ariyala's and using max Diadem crit stats on any slot that didn't already have max crit options: ffxiv.ariyala.com

And the rest was just algebra.