Enmity =/= damage healing; There are enmity reducing abilities, there is overhealing, there are adds etc. You can only say that there is a conection, but that's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Seeing parsing data and seeing somebody failing mechanics can be done at the same time. It's not exclusive.
If you hit enrage timer... why should the whole group feel like crap, when there might be only one guy not doing enough? Why should the whole group suffer for something parser would make clear?
You can talk with your group even with parser on.
The target dummy thing is cute, but how do you plan to judge your own performance during the real encouter? If you record a video alongside parsing you can see exactly where your dps is lacking and why.
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11-30-2015, 05:05 PMArchaell
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11-30-2015, 05:06 PMOdett
Oh boy...
No...? N-no? Are you aware the Elusive Jump, Smokescreen, Shadewalker, Shroud of Saints, and Quelling Strikes are ALL skills that play around with your enmity bar. Using an enmity bar to gauge peoples' performances is very misleading for these reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
False. Meeting the recommended ilv requirement for a fight is enough to clear it as long as you know how to play your job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
So, using my previous example here, if three DPS players are doing more than 1k DPS on Faust, but the fourth is doing half of that, and the DPS check is not being met, it's obviously the tanks' and healers' faults. Sure. Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
You have not provided a single accurate explanation to back up your claim other than by showing how grossly misinformed you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
Battles like Faust have no mechanics. Try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
So instead of looking at numbers and seeing who that someone is, you'll just bash your head against the fight 6 more times and keep dying at the same spot due to a failed DPS check, and say "oh, someone isn't putting up the numbers they should, but it's better not to know who it is, even if we have the possibility to do so". Great idea. That does not sound frustrating at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
That comment is so general, vague, and unsupported that I'm not even going to bother thinking of a way to reply to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
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11-30-2015, 05:09 PMToguro
I understand what Yoshida is saying when he thinks the community wouldn't be able to handle an in-game parser responsibly. He's most likely talking about NA and EU. I wouldn't be surprised. With games like DC Universe Online around with EXACT public in-game damage parsers(It gives you the exact number, not a rounded one. It's a calculator), I have a feeling on what the community turn into if it was added. People getting kicked for low heal or damage numbers was a daily thing. Getting fired on for having low dps. There were DPS requirements: "LF Gadgets DPS MUST DO 1.5mil DMG G2G". DCUO was built around the dang scoreboard(parser) and it probably has the craziest community ever.
I can see a personal parser helping but then be easily abused because y'know... we're us.
PF: "LF ilvl195 DRG 1.4K DPS IF LIE KIK AND BLACKLIST"
Join party: "What's your DPS average?"
"What's your DPS average?"
"What's your DPS average?"
All day. I don't wanna hear that mess. I'm fine with the enmity list. If there's an ilvl209 monk(In Savage gear since they do tend to be better than non-endgame 209's. Just observations) and I'm getting more hate on the boss as an ilvl200 DRG, I'm just better. That's that.
I don't really want it that bad or need it. To be honest being a PS4 player and ilvl200 beating full ilvl210 + Thordan weapon guys makes me feel good inside...
And most of them didn't use enmity-reducing skills. One NIN threw a smokebomb on me once... still beat eeem doe. Most BRDs/MCHs and SMNs/BLMs I go against don't use them. I never see DRGs doing Elusive jump.
If you're in Void Ark on... the 3rd boss. You got a MNK in half ilvl200-210, never died once and is in 6th or 7th place.. no parser required that player is just bad.. -
11-30-2015, 05:34 PMArchaellMaybe they don't use enmity reducing abilities, because they judge their dps based on the enmity list? I have been doing that... on MCH. Funny thing is, turrets and summons have their own enmity. That's nice chunk of enmity missing. I have to admit I felt really bad before I noticed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toguro
Players are already parsing, or asking others to parse them. It's absurd to expect that the community would get ruined by official parser.
You can also die during a fight, yes, but you might not know that even with spending xx% of the encounter on the ground, you can still be the top dps... it happens, unfortunately.
Yoshida is saying that, because there are summoners who spam Ruin the whole game, with occasional miasma, and they get happily carried through the whole game. The problem isn't as much the community not being able to handle it, as the community not being able to handle the accountability for their own performance. Were the official parser introduced a lot of players would be quite "surprised". -
11-30-2015, 05:35 PMAzazua_azurano offence, one person isn't a make or break. If ur doing Alex savage in a Pf group instead of with players you know/been playing with for a while thats your own fault. And communication should be forfront, not numbers. The correct way to go about it is leave and communicate see where the issue lies. parser doesn't tell you the issue just the numbers. This is what pro parser ppl don't get, they are quick to kick instead of handling the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odett
The correct way to go about this type of content is first play with people you know, master each bit of the content then worry about dmg. After that communicate with your team before and after each fight to see how as a group can improve.
Thing is numbers change at any given moment due to how a mob chooses to attack. One fight the ninja might be the main target for mob ayttacks, next fight it might be the dragoons. Other factors include sudden lag spikes, if a person is newer to the content, or is having an off day due to being sick.
And it has been said that parser to parser numbers change, how do you know which is more on point?
@ odett and sorry dude people like you are heavily misguided on how to act and do any form of content with the "kick the <supposed> low dps person" The fact you encourage that behavior is just mind boggling. And that is the type of mindset i'm tired of seeing. The japanese players (most are ps3/ps4) have little to no issue beating this content w/o a parser, same for ff11 (which was out for a year as ps2 only in japan mind you). There is more to content that 1 person dps, and that is teamwork and communication, which from my experience what Na players lack, outside insulting each other over arbitrary numbers on a tv/computer screen. -
11-30-2015, 05:53 PMColorfulExcept DPS does make or break a run. Remember BixEX before everyone overgeared it? 2-3 good DPS could make up for one DPS that was doing pathetic numbers, but that's where the problem lies. What if you have 1 good DPS, 2 average DPS, and 1 really bad DPS? Not add Tanks and Healers that aren't great at DPSing either, and you have a failed party, if not for that one failing DPS, you would have met the DPS checks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazua_azura
And for those with the tinfoil hats, I've played WoW on and off for almost a 8 years now, people really don't give a rat's ass if you're doing poor DPS. Recently used my level boost on a Rogue and had no idea what I was doing, for the first few runs before I got used to the class I was doing half the DPS of the other two, did anyone care? No, they didn't. It was a dungeon, of course they don't. The same would apply here. -
11-30-2015, 05:54 PMBoss_Koivula
@azazua
It's you who doesn't get anything. I cant even beging to understand where you got all this misinformation from, but please stop spreading your false accusations and stop with all the fear mongering bullshit. -
11-30-2015, 05:58 PMruskieOw those tears. I shall bottle them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriaEnia
As for the whole enmity bars. Yes it's by far not accurate. But what I've noticed myself. If I open with quelling and then still get to the top of enmity compared to the rest... someone is doing something wrong. -
11-30-2015, 06:21 PMMakado
Its simple really, they have hard dps checks for the high level fights, but there is no way for you to legitimately tell your dps. This should have been here from the start, it certainly isnt fair to the community to have things set up this way and to be honest the only logical reason for it is not people would abuse it, but they wanted people to struggle and take longer. In reality having a way to tell your dps is fun, being able to learn a new thing to push yourself to a new level is a great feeling.
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11-30-2015, 06:23 PMAzazua_azuraI don't fear or monger anything, even yoshida said this so ya............ -shrugs- Nothing i said is misinfo its 7 years playing ff11 on console and 2 years ff14 on console and only 1 time of all that having 1 random person complain about my dps. In my true personal opinion its WoW players who require 20-30 addons parser included to play something as basic as a video game, are the ones who don't know what their doing. It doesn't take a parser to see who slacks and who doesn't and everything in mmo takes group effort. One person was never/has never/ nor will ever be a make or break as everyone should be on the same page. If you can't beat content its fault of the group, possible lack of communication or lack of practice, or lack of gear. video games are not hard, people make them hard by over thinking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula
I never once also stated I'm for or against parser. I just think needing them is stupid as well as the attitude that comes from it. Incase people don't know parser attitudes trickle into non raid content, and its annoying as heck to deal with. Do you know how often i had to deal with precasting mages? Or dps players who start a fight right after I use tomahawk, shiekd lob, or unleash? It makes it hard to try and do ur best or learn when people do this. All for the sake of maxing ones dps due to the "attack first" thing.
I also have experience with DCUO and people there don't know the concept of teamwork, all they care about is being top of the leader board. And just fyi i was toping said leaderboard as a healer simply due to having an aoe Dot.
And i also can't tell you how often supposed high dps guys cause wipes in ff11, then complain about everyone else even though he was the 1 causing the issue.