BRDs not using WM -_-

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Originally Posted by T2teddy

Well I just got WM when i hit 52 a couple of weeks ago, and in my opinion it's useless as tits on a bull without EA, IJ and the level 60 skill. Y'know cast times, no auto attack, totally borked procs.... >.<
I've always been the sort to stand still more often than not so that's not an issue. So I'm just trying to level up to 60 for the full kit...maybe then I'll like my bard again :(

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WM is useless until Iron Jaws. But I'm pretty sure the point on OP was brd/mch at 60 in ex roulets.

Like said earlier, if tanks/healers are kicked for doing a poor job, why shouldn't dps be kicked for excelling poorly at their job?

Sure that's not the reason why vote kick was added, but if people are gone use it for that atleast bring in some equality between roles.

Last night in Fractal Continuum, I ran with a bard who refused to use WM. It was like a three-player run with a machinist as the only DPS. We did well until the final boss; single-handedly taking down all four clock-adds before one crossed the arena was a bit hectic. I applaud and appreciate bards who use WM better now....

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Originally Posted by Crissy

Last night in Fractal Continuum, I ran with a bard who refused to use WM. It was like a three-player run with a machinist as the only DPS. We did well until the final boss; single-handedly taking down all four clock-adds before one crossed the arena was a bit hectic. I applaud and appreciate bards who use WM better now....

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Minuet helps when used correctly, of course, but in your case I highly doubt the issue was just that bard not using WM. I don't mean to put down random DF DPS I come across. I am certain some of them are trying their best, and some also lack gear. But I think that even without WM I would significantly out DPS a large portion of the people I end up in expert roulettes with. A lot of people quite honestly don't press buttons and also lack understanding of how their job works.

As someone who has played Bard since day 1 of my career, WM is only decent when in proper rotations. I've abandoned Mantra as healing has gotten so OP in HW, with Scholar's indomitabley, etc etc and replaced it with the Lancers Feint as the final CC for added burst This allows me to my normal rotation while keeping 2 skills off gcd, Plus you inflict Slow.

I've also screwed around with Featherfoot, Haymaker, internal Release, Feint, and Blood For Blood as CC. Considering the TP penalty while in WM is pretty much nonexistent and you still have Battle Voice / Army. FF / HM allow you to stack a boss, pop a 4 piece macro, and if you evade you get a 170 potency (WM boost) 25 yalm attack thats a free off gcd cast. Although that one is meant more for my FC mates while we go through alternate types of classes to see if there's a better "social norm" so to speak in the new expansion. Though for what it's worth, actually seeing it work is strangely very satisfying, and rather hilarious at times to see a Bard do it of all people.

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Originally Posted by Eskuire

I've also screwed around with Featherfoot, Haymaker, internal Release, Feint, and Blood For Blood as CC. Considering the TP penalty while in WM is pretty much nonexistent and you still have Battle Voice / Army.

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You will go so far without Invigorate. The goal as raider is not play mage's ballad or TP song. In short duration combats will be nice but in a2, a3, a4 and their savage modes. You will be out of tp so fast.

In frontlines, you could remove B4B and feint to add Haymaker + featherfoot, even invigorate to keep feint because is a quick damage to steal kills.

In wolves' den, without Invigorate, you have to run a lot of times and without the 400 tp or items to recover tp, you will be a dead bard.

First of all: if your expert roulette takes 45 minutes you have way more issues than 1 bad Brd. That has been said already. Even if I wouldn't use WM I would beat even most of the melee dps I met in dungeons, just because the least players know how to play their job. So if those Brds were THAT bad they clearly didn't know their job at all and it's not only because WM wasn't used. I once met a Brd using WM, wildly spamming buttons, Sidewinder without DoTs, no Straight Shot at all, AoE skills on single target, and so on..
To that other person saying "TP problems are pretty much nonexistent on WM", you clearly never played Bard CORRECTLY. Otherwise you'd run out of TP after about 3:30 min. Sure takes longer as without WM, but the current gear having THAT amounts of Sks it is impossible to NOT run out of TP.

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Originally Posted by RinchanNau

But I think that even without WM I would significantly out DPS a large portion of the people I end up in expert roulettes with..

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You make a valid point on lack of player knowledge, but with your current Bard gear, this isn't really a fair statement lol.

Hmm, WM feels really situational. Like, it feels like it wouldn't very helpful to keep it on all of the time or at all against bosses like Talurd in Damazael Darkhold, kiting, or in most solo situations where it would be better to keep it turned off. But, on most bosses where you're mostly in one place all of the time: there is no reason to turn it off at all.

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Originally Posted by rappa

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No, I'm well aware of that. This is kind of the problem with this game, is that the normal CC skills, is played under the assumption the entire game is the same in all modes at all times. Haymaker / FF was just something I was screwing around with without Invig because in Normal dungeons there is no TP penalty basically for me to even worry.

I would never go into a 10-15 minute long fight without that, nor be stupid enough to go into WD or FL without it either. PVP Barding, Feint is needed. Anything you get a free cast for any type of damage is a plus. I change my CCs all the time based on what I go into.(With the exception of WD until 3.1 because queues on Malboro DC are literally almost 2 hours)

There is absolutely no reason to have WM switched off outside of responding to mechanics which require heavy movement. Everything else you can stutter step your way through or throw out a Feint. You can try to frame it anyway you like, but if you have it switched off arbitrarily, you are a bad.