Alexander Savage = Gear Check. Making Alexander Savage = Not Gear Check. Making Alexander Savage doable with lower gear + saying the strategies are hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
It will get cleared in a day, and be far easier then most content. Most hard stuff are pretty much DPS checks, making the gear requirement that low will make that hit easier and everyone will be able to clear savage.
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09-29-2015, 02:46 AMNektulos-Tuor
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09-29-2015, 02:49 AMStrejdaTomI don't mind Alex being gear check, I mind it requiring to do Alex Normal before. If there was one another type of i190 gear, it would let us not farm Normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
DPS check is kind of challenge too ofc.
At this moment I have no problem with Alex DPS checks and I feel like I stated my suggestion wrong. -
09-29-2015, 02:50 AMNektulos-TuorNot really a challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
Don't have the gear = can't do it.
Have the gear = can do it.
I don't see how that is challenging. It doesn't add anymore to the challenge of the fight. It just means you need better gear. -
09-29-2015, 03:04 AMNutz
Maybe I'm wrong, but I never got even the slightest hint that SE intended to release the second or third waves of Alexander HM and Savage separately. The delay this time around, or at least a lot of it, was because of the expansion and not wanting people to feel rushed to complete it (potentially missing out on at least 1 if not multiple weeks of lock outs).
Maybe they'll release HM at 3.2 and Savage at 3.21 next time, but I think this would be a mistake. For 3.0 people needed to gain 10 levels and roughly 40 ilvls to catch up to Alexander HM (really dislike the lowest tier of things being labeled 'Hard' btw), never mind the massive amount of story that took place and just getting acclimated to 3.0. For 3.2, people will be geared up, likely in full i210, while Alexander HM will probably only require i180-i190 (almost certainly not higher level gear than the previous iteration) and Savage shouldn't require anything more than i200-i210 (again, no more than the previous tier) and people will be ready to start immediately.
No, I think the tiered roll out was entirely to do with the expansion and won't be repeated in further patches since the only purpose it could serve is if they want Alexander Savage to require better gear than you can obtain in the previous version of Alexander Savage (or upgraded 'capped' tome gear), thus requiring a few repeated completions of Alexander HM + new tome gear even to get in. Those sort of strict ilvl requirements haven't been seen before (usually they're fairly loose) so a delayed roll out shouldn't serve any purpose at all. -
09-29-2015, 03:12 AMStrejdaTomI hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutz
Also I feel that some people here made a good point and that I stated my suggestion completely wrong.
I intended to come with a solution that would make us able to do Savage Alex without farming Normal Alex, but the thing I suggested would leave Savage Alex easily outgearable which is not what I intended.
I think that Savage Alex is OK difficulty wise, I am still on A4S without a clear but there are around 4 - 5 more months untill next Alex is out so this is completely fine, the only thing I am disappointed about is that I had to do Normal Alex to be able to clear Savage Alex.
I am not exactly sure what could solve this? Maybe if there was one more gear set at the same iLevel as Normal Alexander, maybe from crafts (unmeldable) or something like that. Some possibility to gear other way than from Alex Normal that wouldn't take longer than Alex Normal though. -
09-29-2015, 03:18 AMNadirahThe reasons I've been given is simply "savage is boring" and "savage is too brutal".Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
My friend's static, that I've had to fill in for a few times now, has a few folks that barely have time to get on much less farm tomes. They're behind a bit in gear. One of them is a college student that's cramming for exams right now. Most of them are bored in general.
Savage isn't exciting. You don't need story to be exciting. You don't need a completely different raid to be exciting.
Just completely adding one or two entirely new mechanics does wonders for a fight. You know, mechanics that need to be performed and not mechanics that wipe your raid if you can't perform a DPS check.
Things like the sniper adds on Nazgrim(Mythic), who aim at your healers and will one shot them if people don't kill them immediately.
Things like Horridon in Throne of Thunder(Heroic), which spawns a pink ghostly Direhorn add that focuses on a single player that only they can see. You hit the one that's focused on you with a ranged spell or ability, if it reaches you, you die in one hit.
Or Garrosh(Mythic), where there's an entire 4th phase to the fight that doesn't exist on Heroic, Normal, or LFR.
Those fights didn't get "old" after a few weeks.
They got "old" because that raid was the last one we had added to the expansion(in the case of Nazgrim and Garrosh) and we ran it for over a year.
And I know a lot of folks that did not kill anything in Heroic Throne of Thunder. -
09-29-2015, 03:20 AMHyristI'd like to dedicate a new thread to pitching the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
However, the short of it is, rather than a "Savage" mode at a set difficulty, we take inspiration on games that grade performance as part of their reward schedule and develop a sort of "Arcade" mode - which would have triggers within the content itself that would increase the Raid's difficulty in trade for higher score, as the fight goes on. The raw scoring results in currency given, as well as reaching certain 'ranks' of performance once unlocks new tiers of rewards to spend the currency on.
To keep it more skill-based, and engaging, I would have an ilvl sync somewhere easily accessible to obtain. This set ilvl is how the difficulty of the fight is tuned. The ilvl sync can be bypassed, but at a penalty to performance points (thinking it automatically locks you out of the highest tier of rating if you haven't already obtained it.)
I would actually remove gear progression from the rewards, seeming they expire during the next even patch anyways. But instead try to give more permanently desirable rewards, like new skill animations, partical effects, on top of your typical mounts, new armor styles/glamours. Some benefit to Free Companies for their members participating in these Arcade Mode raids would also help incentivise.
The idea is - easy to grasp, hard to master - the longevity of the competitive scene would stretch beyond simply first clears and branch into the realm of high scores. Players who want to raid casually will be able to do so for rewards, albeit at a slower pace, and intensives to push for higher scores for higher tier rewards and the unique skill/animation based rewards will keep the content relevant even when the push of progression moves beyond the raid's ilvl sync.
Of course there are a lot more details to it, but that's the gist of the idea - crafting a Raiding system that has wide appeal an positively encourages improving performance, while rewarding those who achieve it in a way more visible than titles and longer lasting than armor glamours. -
09-29-2015, 03:25 AMNadirahYou do realize that by making it a gear check, and putting gear before it's level in, means you have to get that to meet the gear check.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
If the zone required 180 with 190 weapon as minimum designed for the entire raid, and it was completely capable of being cleared at that point, if your raid was struggling, you'd be forced to do normal *anyways* because normal gives 190 gear and you need that bump to get over it.
People also gave this excuse in WoW, but the *only* reason their complaints were remotely justified was that the gear gave set bonuses, and you could use gear from the LFR sets to complete them. They changed that in WoD, and it pissed off more than were upset they had to do "welfare raids" for set bonuses. -
09-29-2015, 03:25 AMStrejdaTomYeah, this is really nice and fresh idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrist
I think it definitely deserves its own thread.
I wish you good luck and I will definitely support it. -
09-29-2015, 03:31 AMStrejdaTomYou are right, that's why I changed the suggestion a bit to add 1 more gear at the ilvl of Alex Normal, maybe from crafts (unmeldable), that would let us not do Alex Normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadirah
If there was better gear available people would farm for it and burn themselves out and that is something I haven't though about. So there should be another option to Alex Normal gear that would take maximally the same time to get. It can even have old skins, as we already see in crafts.