AST, MCH, DRK and their failure as new jobs at HW launch

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName8544

What do you guys think about it? What do you think about the new jobs anf them being patched/fixed every 2 weeks. Is it normal a new job from an expansion to be weaker? Isn't usually the other way around?
I want to hear your feedback, and your opinion, your deception if that's the case.

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You do realize, of course, that it is easier and less off-putting to the player base, to release a job "under-powered" and buff it than it is to release a job "over-powered" and then nerf it.

While I agree AST did need work at its inception (doesn't really need much aside from possible side grade Tweaks thanks to 3.07), I'd like to think DRK and MCH are in good spots right now.

Elysium's World First A4S clear used a DRK and Lucrezia's World Second A4S clear used both a DRK and MCH.

If these jobs were weak, I don't think the two best FCs in the world would be taking them into the hardest content in the game where you're trying to squeeze out as close to 100% optimization as possible.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Not much screwed up when DRK is the best magic tank, so useful for Alexander, competent MCHs are leading the DPS at over 1200 in Savage, and AST heals are now pretty much par with SCH and WHM as of 3 07, not to mention the tremendous boosts they get from cards...

Tell me again how these jobs fail? O.o

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They are failures because they aren't overpowered, dontcha know???

I'm very disappointed with Machinist. Not because of its DPS or anything, just because it feels like a Bard clone... I think that was an incredibly stupid move and wasted all the potential a new Job could bring...

Personally, I'd probably drop the current Gauss Barrel/Wanderer's Minuet effects from both Jobs. Drop many of the support skills Machinist has and instead work them into Bard (a Song version of Rend Mind, for example) instead of the Wanderer's Minuet set of skills Bard got (because right now Bard feels like a weak DPS and a weak support Job... I'd like to see it feel like a strong support Job...), so Bard completely loses the Bow-Mage aspect (although it would cast Songs still). Rework Machinist into a DPS, with the cast time being a standard thing, rather than attached to Gauss Barrel (it would be the player reloading the gun). OK it might feel a bit too much like a TP using Black Mage then, but with it losing its various support skills, that would give the Job more room to flesh out its own niche with the attachments... Gauss Barrel could have an entirely new effect. Promotion would be changed for something else, as would Rend Mind and Dismantle. Reload and Quick Reload could be changed, since the default cast time is now you reloading...

Astrologian I've enjoyed, Nocturnal Sect being the only real downer I have on the Job. My opinion on which can be found here. Other than that I think the Cards could do with some adjustment, rather than being pure RNG.

Dark Knight I suppose is fine. I'd have liked it to be more about sacrificing and draining HP, since that would make for an interesting tank IMO, but I suppose healers could do without that... Living Dead potentially giving Doom for seemingly no pay-off (when compared to Holmgang) bothers me, as does Abyssal Drain being so weak, but overall I suppose I've enjoyed it enough with them swapping HP for MP...

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Originally Posted by Hieral

Not much screwed up when DRK is the best magic tank, so useful for Alexander, competent MCHs are leading the DPS at over 1200 in Savage, and AST heals are now pretty much par with SCH and WHM as of 3 07, not to mention the tremendous boosts they get from cards...

Tell me again how these jobs fail? O.o

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The day I get beat by a mch in savage is the day I hang em up. I did 1200 DPS 10 ilvls ago.


The mistake SE made is trying to make classes different. You need classes that achieve the same result while PLAYING differently.

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Originally Posted by Hieral

competent MCHs are leading the DPS at over 1200 in Savage

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https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...ENZczdHORIw5-k

1200 lol , sure those MCH will show drgs how to dps .....20 ilvls ago

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName8544

DRK has interesting ideas but still lacks PLD or WAR raid utility, is still inferior to other 2 tanks in their own domains (MT or OT and even survivability) and is, arguably, bad designed (darkside, parry based tank)

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What the heck ? DRK has the same raid utility as PLD (one reduces str, the other int) and brings in more dps to make up for the *slightly* lower survivability. It's a better MT than PLD in both A1s and A3s too.

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Originally Posted by AppropriateName8544

You don't have to be that rude. I am just asking for you guys'opinion, and I'm basing on the fact AST MCH for instance are the most concerned jobs by patches and had a heavy reworking of their skills since HW launch, far more than old classes. You can't deny that. If it's improved, it means its not working properly or/and is uncompetitive. I'm also refering to AST threads asking to be buffed, up to 3.07 at least.

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OP, I don't know what kind of server you are in or you are just voicing your opinions only based on what people say instead of trying it yourself.
If you are to compare a DRK to a WAR in terms of viability then I have nothing to say.
Are those bad DRKs or MCHs that you've seen have even run more than 10 raids or dungeons? Probably not. Most likely, the fates grinders. Point is, there are a lot of players that don't even know how to play the class properly.

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

WAR just looks so good that I'm almost mad I decided to focus on DRK instead of my 2.x love.

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Warrior tank here since 2.0. Played in one dungeon on DRK and never tried again. It feels even more clunky than PLD (which I got to 50 in 2.0). I just love my axe wielding warrior too much to switch. Why do DRK swing those giant swords so awkwardly? It really makes those swings feel slower.

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Originally Posted by DkDerek

The mistake SE made is trying to make classes different. You need classes that achieve the same result while PLAYING differently.

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they tried to make classes different? MCH and BRD has the same stance. they added positional to NIN so every melee DPS has them. AST has regen and shields. if they were trying they didn't do it that well.