Defilberating the Dead Horse

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll. Fact. If you are defending, you are one of those three.

There is no fun to be had.
There is no money to be made.
There is only the grind to craft useless gear that will never sell.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

You guys do realize that crafting has always been 20 ilevels behind 'poetic' gear, right? The main difference here is that we don't have accessories, but unless -all of you made money by selling accessories- back then, which I doubt just judging by Gilgamesh's old market, losing i180 accesories isn't the end of all time.

When i90 was the cap? i70 was the craft. i110? i90.

i130? You guessed it; i110. You are always losing primary stats in crafting selection for the goal of more substats that make up for it. For Tanking classes this might be a little unacceptable because 'moar defense', but everyone else? You still got a market, especially on belt, boots, pants, and helmet where you're sacrificing less main stats for the same number of materia slots. People are not going to be in full 200 for a while. They won't be in 210 for even longer.

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When i90 was the cap, you could gear up through philosophy (i70) or the weekly capped myth (i90). Melded i70 was superior to philosophy (same primary stats, more secondary stats), so it was always worth wearing while acquiring i90 if you could afford it.

When i110 was the cap, you could gear up through myth (i90) or the weekly capped soldiery (i100, upgraded to i110 if you raided). Melded i90 was superior to myth (same primary stats, more secondary stats), and occasionally a viable alternative to soldiery (lower primary stats, more secondary stats), so, again, it was always worth wearing while acquiring i100/110 if you could afford it.

When i130 was the cap, you could gear up through soldiery (i100, upgraded to i110) or the weekly capped poetics (i120, upgraded to i130 if you raided). Melded i110 was superior to soldiery (same primary stats, more secondary stats), and occasionally a viable alternative to poetics (lower primary stats, more secondary stats), so, once again, it was always worth wearing while acquiring i120/130 if you could afford it.

Now, i210 is the cap. You can gear up through Law (i170, upgraded to i180), weekly capped Esoterics (i200, upgraded to i210 if you're a raider), or Alexander (i190). Melded i180 is superior to Law (same primary stats, more secondary stats), but because primary stat weights (as compared to secondary stats) are much higher in 3.0 than they were in 2.x, it's rarely a viable alternative to i190, and never a viable alternative to i200.

tl;dr:

- There's now a tier of gear available between the crafted gear and raid/weekly-limited tomes right from the start
- Primary stat weights being higher mean that crafted gear is considerably less competitive with higher ilvl gear than it was in the past

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll. Fact. If you are defending, you are one of those three.

There is no fun to be had.
There is no money to be made.
There is only the grind to craft useless gear that will never sell.

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Who are you to call people trolls? You are very disrespectful to fellow crafters that make the best out of the system AND the devs that created it. You aren't stating a fact. You're stating your opinion.

Everyone knows the system has flaws. But it's not a total f***up as you make it seem. If you don't want to add anything to the conversation, don't post at all.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

Who are you to call people trolls? You are very disrespectful to fellow crafters that make the best out of the system AND the devs that created it. You aren't stating a fact. You're stating your opinion.

Everyone knows the system has flaws. But it's not a total f***up as you make it seem. If you don't want to add anything to the conversation, don't post at all.

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Why should I respect developers whose likely intention is to turn us into cash cows? And why should I respect crafters who support that? Also, I have added plenty to the discussion of this system including ways to fix it - just not in this thread because I'm tired of explaining why this is abysmal.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Why should I respect developers whose likely intention is to turn us into cash cows? And why should I respect crafters who support that? Also, I have added plenty to the discussion of this system including ways to fix it - just not in this thread because I'm tired of explaining why this is abysmal.

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Hate to tell you this, buddy, you've been a cash cow since you signed up.

No sense being indignant in it now.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Now, i210 is the cap. You can gear up through Law (i170, upgraded to i180), weekly capped Esoterics (i200, upgraded to i210 if you're a raider), or Alexander (i190). Melded i180 is superior to Law (same primary stats, more secondary stats), but because primary stat weights (as compared to secondary stats) are much higher in 3.0 than they were in 2.x, it's rarely a viable alternative to i190, and never a viable alternative to i200.

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Has the parsing been done to determine the new stat weights? That's one of the things I've been waiting to see ...

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Why should I respect developers whose likely intention is to turn us into cash cows? And why should I respect crafters who support that? Also, I have added plenty to the discussion of this system including ways to fix it - just not in this thread because I'm tired of explaining why this is abysmal.

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Disrespect because of a 'likely intention'? Wow... Then make your voice even more heard by unsubbing.

I have stated it in other threads, too. You don't need any 3.05 gear for the current crafts. So just wait it out (by unsubbing?).

I, too, hope there will be changes, so non omnicrafters can get their scrips more easily or at least a lot more cheaply. It should never be such a gil sink. But S-E never had it right with the gil sinks. Look at scarebearz, boasting his 2300mils. He drives our average gil per player up high, which seems to be what the devs look at (median anyone?).

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Originally Posted by Seyb

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Everyone knows the system it is a total f***up

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That's correct.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

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If you don't want to add anything to the conversation, don't post at all.

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And so is this.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

You are very disrespectful to fellow crafters that make the best out of the system AND the devs that created it.

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The ones making the best out of this system are also the ones most vehemently stating just how FUBAR'd the system is.
Because you know, we actually grinded the favors and made the items.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

That's correct.


And so is this.


The ones making the best out of this system are also the ones most vehemently stating just how FUBAR'd the system is.
Because you know, we actually grinded the favors and made the items.

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Go and edit your edit of my quote. How low can you get? *biggest facepalm in the world*

I don't see you making the best of it. I see you harassing people who don't follow your ideas.
Who is 'we'? Oh yes, eveyone in the world, because you say so.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Alright, here's a generic message because I'm getting tired of repeating stuff.

Anyone who defends this system is either thick in the head, completely uninformed, or a troll.

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There is a difference between saying the system has it's flaws and the extreme over-dramatization you and others are using. The so called people you claim are defending it are actually not defending it in the way you imply as there is not a single one including myself who claims the system is either perfect of not in need of fixing. But what the more reasonable, rational and sensible people whom you claim are defending it are trying to do is separate the bullshit hyperbole and exaggerations from the actual facts. Hyperbole like there is no fun to be had, no money to be made, crafting is dead, no one is crafting, economy is destroyed, everyone agrees with you unless they are stupid or trolls, also my personal favorite coming directly from you...that SE is paying me to argue with you. You need to take a step back and regain some self control especially over your emotions and then apply some common sense to the issues and the possible solutions.

Seyb has it right, your not stating facts with such comments like you made earlier in this thread though I personally think he does not go far enough in that your not only stating your opinion but your exaggerating that opinion because you think it adds more weight to your arguments perhaps unaware your making it hyperbolic. The fact is SE will not make knee jerk reactions and dramatic changes just because you choose to over-dramatize the issues. They will do as I said earlier which is make minor adjustments and slight balancing alterations over time until they are happy with the outcome like they always have done in the past and they will take their time to evaluate the situation instead of making knee jerk reactions to the hyperbole being spread around these forums by some here. They certainly wont fire someone over the introduction of red scripts which one of your friends has asked them to do plus it is so unlikely that SE will do another drastic Crafting Reborn type thing before the next expansion comes out so pinning your hopes on such would not work out well.

Adjustments and balancing of skills usefulness, timer adjustments maybe, minor cap rate rise, lowering cost of materials from red scripts etc are the sort of things SE will be looking at plus over time increasing the amount of recipes for each craft...not removal of the red script system or removal of the existence of a cap rate and not adding BiS recipes to crafting as SE have been pretty clear about their stance on that for quite some time. So if you hope for one of those three latter things which I know for a fact you do since have said as much in other threads then you should adjust your expectations else I have a very strong feeling your going to be permanently disappointed. You also actually have a better chance of SE listening to you if you drop the hyperbole, exaggerations and over-dramatization of the issues...they will want actual facts and monitoring of in-game data plus reasonable, sensible and rational ideas and as such your not doing your cause any justice due to how your expressing your concerns.

EDIT

Since I hit my post limit I will leave this here as my last response for the day.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Is there a new forum achievement for using the term hyperbole 1000 times or something? xD

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I also used the words "So", "You" and "Balancing" plus lots more many times. Perhaps SE could reward me with an in-game item if such an achievement you mentioned were to exist. The quantity of specific words being used was relative to how long my post was and how much depth I went into in explaining myself. Did I repeat one or more words more than you would of liked? Maybe but I am not going to worry about it. :)