I feel like my threat as paladin, trash and boss alike, is uncomfortably low.

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Originally Posted by Nabudis92

At the time of writing Im 54 wearing an entire suit of high quality 54 gear, weapon, shield, armor, with full vit jewelry, so other than putting on strength right side I can't really improve my damage.

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*Puts on flame suit*

Wear some STR accessories

If you don't pull big, 99% of DF healers can handle you in full STR accessories in dungeons.
If you do pull big, 99% of DF healers can handle you with 2 or 3 STR accessories and the rest VIT in dungeons.

I just finished leveling to 60 on pld.. and on my entire way there, I never had a single issue with holding hate. I used dungeons the entire time. I even used Vit gear over Str. Are you playing an entirely different game here, cuz I dun remember all these issues.

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Originally Posted by Faytte

The emnity of flash with shield oath up is 960 (same as hitting everything with a savage blade). Thats really not insane, given the potency of attacks that are effecting groups in aoe at the moment--DPS damage has grown ALOT in this xpac. A warriors base potency on overpower is 900, before 20% extra from maim putting them to 1080, which is then multiplied by their critical hit damage (or better, by Unchained).

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I'm not saying it's insane. I'm saying it is better than hitting an uncomboed Rage of Halone 3 times, which Ketsu is suggesting as a good idea. Which according to the linked document is even worse than before as an uncomboed halone is 160 potency less than a flash.

Though the document you list has some things that I'm wondering about. Flash scales off attack power correct? So I understand that berserk works well with it. How does maim work with Flash? Or how does Shield Oath lower the potency of Flash? I thought each of them only changed damage % which Flash has none. Is there data linked to this somewhere?

Maim does not scale with flash--it does with over power (their alternative to flash). The comparison being --warriors can amplify their 'flash' with maim, while paladins cannot.


Shield Oath, despite listing itself as a damage penalty, works by reducing our attack power (which was effectively proven by using flash as an example). So basically, flash gains no benefits from FoF (Damage) but is penalized by shield oath before its multilpied (mislable).

Warriors can berserk for a better flash (actual paladin flash) and all of their enhancers work off their own alternatives (overpower).

Warriors are in such a good spot right now its hard to really see a paladin. Much of their extra tankyness does not apply in Alexander (a1, a4). A warrior is great on ALL of those turns (as mt or ot). They can swap stances as an OGCD, do not break their combos or lose their stacks. Paladins take a gcd, breaks combos. Going into offensive stance has a great benefit of allowing their aggro to remain competitive (allowing them to tank easier content exclusively in deliverance, even off 'top tier' dps that are parsing 1K+). Not so with a paladin.

Single target damage--no comparison. AoE damage on a paladin is basically non existent.

Clemency is too slow and prone to interuption as a MT. As an OT, its too slow to do much of anything--healers will beat you to the punch, making most of the healing overhealing. It ignores skill speed to (honestly --why-- give a discipline of war a spell is beyond me. Clemency, like flash, should be a standard GCD and scale off skill speed. Its limiter is its mana cost--why have an ability that can be interrupted and prevents you from blocking/parrying on a tank?).

Paladins arnt in a great position atm--I'll be switching over to my War for savage.

My tip for you is to mark the first target. This let's the dps know to focus it down first, while your flashes and CoS will continue to build enmity on the other mobs. Don't bother with GB on the first target since you'll probably be fighting for aggro. But once it's down, you should have enough enmity built up on the other mobs that you can let off a few GB. I've found that when I struggle for aggro the most is when dps are hitting two different targets. At that point, it's kind of on us tanks to mark targets and nip that behaviour in the bud. Good luck!

Marking isnt the issue when people are maximizing their aoe damage. Properly played smn/blm can put out some rather insane aoe values, and CoS isnt going to keep pace--you get down to draining yourself flash spamming to keep up where warriors can unchain/zerk/maim/overpower/cyclone and of course, DRK aoe is simply much more efficient at 120 potency/salt the earth/etc.


If people have to play around your abilities as a tank and lower their output (i.e using single target via unloading their aoe) while other tanks dont have said issues, then that is the problem (to note, I've leveled Drk/Pal/War all to 60 and I tank on them all. I can tank Rav EX in Deliverence on my war, turn off grit on my drk without problem, but if i go sword as a paladin--I will have massive aggro problems. With my statics aoe, keeping aoe aggro is a2 is a joke as a war, just fine as my drk but never very good on the Paladin. Which is a shame cause Ive always loved playing my paladin but I forsee swapping my main to War now with esoterics.

I was losing threat to BLM yesterday in A4 normal in the beginning of fight (running orbs doesn't help with threat), granted I had fending accessories because it was DF group (dropped couple of times to 1k hp, healers were slower) but even with using only halone combo I couldn't get that BLM off my tail, she was constantly sitting at 80-90% of my threat. Second leg / boss was not an issue since I had initial bonus threat from healer (+ provoke).

I have had no trouble with paladin aggro holding in Shield stance.

In sword I have numerous issues, having to constantly rage instead of doing actual dps combos, sort of losing the point of sword stance.

I don't seem to have issue here.

For AoE threat you'll want to

3x flash/circle > fillerx2 > 2x flash > filler > flash

to maximize blind uptime. You'll also want to just tab target goring at that point - I've never had any aoe threat issues unless dps go completely JOHN MADDEN without even doing quelling - and that is their fault. SMN and BLM both have quelling, and they are the big aoe monsters.

Bring a NIN. NIN give you the pointer finger(shadewalker), you get almost all the aggro they get for as long as buff lasts. :)

This all sounds like you are more undergeared than the other dps. In that case, this isn't just a pld issue yet a issue with all tanks.... who are undergeared more than their dps and healers.