It´s all fun and games until the content gets hard

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

People who constantly shoot down the necessity for tools that will help the players shouldn't complain about the problem of low dps because these people amplify the issue.

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The thing is almost every other MMO has parsers (even if not official, but unlike Square other developers don´t ban you for using them and they are widely known) and people still don´t use or ignore them.
Back in 2008 I did some raid lead in the huge W. We parsed every raid to the deepest crap and talked to the low DPS players but in the end from 10 people maybe 1 listend and tried to really improve.
Most people just don´t care that they are bad as long as they can get stuff done. The majority stays bad, nerfs will come and at some later time they get the crap done. Ilvl improves, skill stays they same and it goes on and on with newer content.

Only thing that would help is when everyone could see the numbers of DPS/HPS/DMG taken, so the bads would knew they can´t get away with being bad because other people see what crap they do. The community in endgame content is already toxic to the limit, seeing numbers in parsers wouldn´t make it much worse.

Just my opinion. Everyone can have another.

This is one of the key contradictions in this game. Dps checks with an official slap on dps meters. It encourages finger-pointing because there's no recognized standard for dps. Tanking and healing have very immediate meters, anyone can see when you fail as a tank or healer; but nobody can really point exactly at who is doing less than half their expected dps when only a minority uses dps meters.

I do understand the intention of this, though, as I'm in a rather social FC with a few really good core players and the rest more social types. As tank and healer main, I know exactly which of our FC members have extremely low dps after a few months. They are good people and some of them may very well have given up the game if an official dps meter existed and they see how they are under-performing.

So we don't mind that we get stuck on dps checks. As long as we are chatting and having a good time, that's good enough for us. So what if we only get to clear content after Echo? We value the personal interactions more in the FC. I've experienced progression raiding in WOW when I was young and now I'm in for the social game.

For those who really care about it, you mustn't expect magically that everyone in the PF are competent. Any veteran should know, that it takes effort to assemble a good team. If you care about progression, it is your own responsibility to note down who are the great players you meet in PF during your usual play time, and hit them up the next time you challenge the content. Gradually you will build up a list of "regulars" who won't necessarily "join your static", but will usually be available when you call on them---if they think you're good enough, too.

If you care about progression, pick and choose your own team. They don't have to be your static. Make notes and maintain a list of those players that impress you. Get active.

DPS check is rearing its ugly head because you are now granted five new abilities to weave in through your rotation. The hardcore players probably already working on optimizing their rotation (as well as farming their gears to max level 170-180 on all slots). However the majority of players probably never understand how to weave in these new abilities (let alone farming gears....). Though honestly, if you are doing a party finder content, unless you specified "need all expert players - no newbies needed" - you will fail multiple times, since it is there for you to practice. Healer gears now loose all those accuracy stats which hurt Scholar the most when it come to their DPS ability.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Healer gears now loose all those accuracy stats which hurt Scholar the most when it come to their DPS ability.

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I actually like this change. In the past, bad DPS have been offloading their responsibility onto healers even though healer dps was never part of the equation. Now the fights reflect the truth much more accurately, with bad DPS no longer able to claim that it's all the healer's fault for not contributing enough dps.

Although I can also see it now. Those bad DPS will start demanding healers to get crafted accessories and overmeld them with Accuracy to raise dps. They will claim that this is what a "good" healer should be doing. They will do anything to avoid admitting that they're just not good enough DPS. I just hope the community doesn't become brain-dead and sing along, treating such ridiculous demands as "basic" healer requirement.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

So, you were wearing i70 on a trial that requires i150+ for a clear? I'm actually surprised you didn't get kicked on sight.

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Law is the new darklight, i think that is what he mean't.

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Originally Posted by Asmodaeus

The thing is almost every other MMO has parsers (even if not official, but unlike Square other developers don´t ban you for using them and they are widely known) and people still don´t use or ignore them. (...) The community in endgame content is already toxic to the limit, seeing numbers in parsers wouldn´t make it much worse.

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I tend to agree on the first point. There are people who aren't going to be interested in improving. That doesn't mean nobody ever will - just that some will be stubborn. There are definitely times where being able to have data straight up telling you "No, you aren't the one pulling their weight" is valueable as a wake up call though.

That said, though? "The endgame community's bad, so we should feel free to make it worse" isn't a stance I can agree with. A lot of the time, crappy behaviour gets put up with simply because it's believed to be the norm as though it can't be improved; but it's being shown constantly that this is a false assumption. Toxic attitudes can be adressed and improved through a variety of manners - or reinforced, and when given the chance, will get worse.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

DPS check is rearing its ugly head because you are now granted five new abilities to weave in through your rotation. The hardcore players probably already working on optimizing their rotation (as well as farming their gears to max level 170-180 on all slots). However the majority of players probably never understand how to weave in these new abilities (let alone farming gears....). Though honestly, if you are doing a party finder content, unless you specified "need all expert players - no newbies needed" - you will fail multiple times, since it is there for you to practice. Healer gears now loose all those accuracy stats which hurt Scholar the most when it come to their DPS ability.

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What? If anything it hurts scholar less - we have 3 guaranteed damage spells with no accuracy check...

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Healer gears now loose all those accuracy stats which hurt Scholar the most when it come to their DPS ability.

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I know that i get a loooooot of hate for that but...well it could be you know...because you should heal, not DPS? How can DPS improve if they have the option to shove something off to healers?

I am all about healer to FOCUS on healing please, you are not there to DPS, otherwise i would roll a DPS and not a healer. Sure, if you can and have downtime between your rotation, do so, as long as you don't stray from the reason you are there in the first place, which is to heal. But try explaining that to the horde of dumdadidumb DPS who is currently overwhelmed with new five abilities and running around mashing buttons.

If the mobs, adds, mechanics, boss are not DEAD fast enough, it is ALWAYS 100% DPS fault, ALWAYS. It is their jobs to kill adds FAST, or click on mechanic (some mechanics, healer can help). But if the adds has to be burn fast, if they don't die fast enough it is DPS fault. Again, all depend on the mechanic, if tank and healer can help without having to worry about healing, then by all means. DPS job is to kill add fast, deal damage, and click on mechanic (depend on the content, the extra healer and tank could deal with mechanic while 1 tank, 1 healer and 4 DPS burn the boss + add).

I have cleared t6,8,9 in pf pre echo. Cleared other things in pf too but I count these amongst my greatest pf miracles. Pro tip: Keep in touch with good players u meet in pf, make a linkshell, inv ppl u like playing with to it. Raiding in mmos is VERY social.