When rolling Need on an item

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

There is a reason why some people do not instantly roll on loot. I explained that reason, you may not like that reason but it is there because people abuse the vote kick system which led to people taking counter measures against such abuse. The only other two reasons why someone would not roll instantly is because they forgot or they are trolling.

I doubt the OP has been trolled that much by people doing such, most likely it is people who forget to roll which is easily solved by reminding them or it is people who are only doing it because they have suffered at the hands of douchébags who vote kicked them prior to the following boss or looting of the next chest in the past. Is the system perfect? No, but there is one reason why some people do not roll instantly which is for a good reason, one reason why someone does not roll instantly which is easily resolved by asking them to roll and one reason which is bad and that is trolling of which there is already a timer (5 minutes is not a long time) which reduces the impact of such people.

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You could say it's just as much abuse to have people refuse to roll and then AFK. The worst instance was a player that stopped participating from the 2nd boss of ST2 onwards. Couldn't boot him because the alliance didn't want to wait and we'd be at the next boss before the timer expired (they were pretty good). He was obviously there, because as soon as Xande died, he lotted immediately, won the roll, and then exited the dungeon cuz he's an awesome person.

Abuse of the lotting system is no way to handle the very, very limited instances of vote kick abuse (i've actually never seen anyone kicked that didn't have good reason to get kicked)

I've also had it happen enough at the end of dungeons or primals to be annoying. Not game breaking, but annoying and would appreciate the fix.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

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In the end there is already a solution to that which is wait until the timer ends and kick, if they alliance was not prepared to wait then they made the choice to leave it open to abuse. Likewise the countermeasure against the vote kick abuse is limited in the same way in that if a group is determined to abuse the vote kick system they might wait till timer ends too.

Even if take both those situations into account, what your left with is still a system that helps players who DC either when a boss is almost dead and they contributed all the way up until that point but their connection crapped out or chest got looted and they DC'd which in both cases they have been given 5 minutes to log back in so they do not lose out on all the effort they put into it. If did what the OP suggested it hurts those players like myself who have experienced such. It may not be a perfect system but the way it works now is done for valid reasons.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

a system that helps players who DC [...] when a boss is almost dead

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Personally I'd prefer the automatic pass if there's nobody left that can win the roll (original request) as opposed to reducing the timer outright. If a person is DC, but has a chance to win the roll (IE, they can roll NEED or there's nobody left who can NEED and they can GREED), then the roll will wait for them or the timer to expire.

Although I wouldn't mind the timer be shortened to 1-2min if you don't have any disconnected players. If there's someone DC (that can actually win the roll), then the timer increases to 5min.

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Originally Posted by Amnesia

I think both the replies are missing the point.

Let's look at an example:
Let's say you're in WoD and playing a SMN and there are no other SMNs or BLMs in your party. If a caster robe comes up and you select "Need", then the lotting on that item should end immediately and it should be yours. No one else is going to be able to get it.

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This is an excellent idea

I agree that either the option to CHANGE your chosen loot option OR automatic awards of loot to a person that rolls need when no one else in the party can or once all other equivalent needers have lotted. They could only do one or the other and the former is nicer for those people that reflexively need anything they can but will be nice and change to pass if they can. Also helps for those oops moments on weekly lockouts.

Why don't you ask SE to remove button need?
Just make it automatically go straight to your inventory.

You still can hit need if your current gear is higher level than loot item.
I like the current systems... if your current gear is high already, you can pass it to your friends who still in progress with their gear.
SE made the timer because it have their own reason, OP idea is working if 1 character 1 class, but this game is 1 character all class.

Well I see the point of friendlyness still.... Like I got sch book drop in T9 roll need for vanity. Someone asks friendly if he can have and as I know its just vanity I have the possibility to leave the instance to "pass" it for this person.
Also in instances like WoD and Co it often prevents people from leaving after looting.... This point is discussable I know but I personally run a dungeon to the end even when I got my loot (unless raid is calling and I get a free penaltyless jump because someone else left before me :S )

Seems reasonable to me. It's rather frustrating at the end of a dungeon to have a need lot on the final boss drop and someone who can't need is afk, or 'hoping' you leave to get it.

If I'm on war and tank drops at the last boss, it's pretty stupid to have to sit there next to the chest when the drg is afk or trolling me for 5 min. He can't out lot me once I click need, so once I click need just mercy kill it already so I can go do other stuff. If there's 2 tanks, then it acts as it currently does until we both lot or pass. QoL change signed.

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Originally Posted by nuyu11

Why don't you ask SE to remove button need?
Just make it automatically go straight to your inventory.

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Because the OP doesn't WANT all eligable items to drop immediately to inventory. The OP wants the ability to pass items they don't want so other players can Greed them.

What the OP DOES want is not to have to wait after choosing to claim an item. There's no point to it - the other players can Greed and Pass all they want, and it doesn't matter. Once you Need, you win unless someone else can Need.

It's not an unreasonable request: Once everyone in the party who is capable of Needing an item have lotted Need, have the item drop immediately. It's not as though it matters at all what anyone else lots at that point, if a Needer has lotted Need.

Say a caster piece drops. Party consists of SMN, two BLM, and five others.

Scenario 1: SMN lots Need, BLMs both Pass or Greed. Item should drop immediately, as none of the other five lots can change the outcome. Item goes to the SMN.

Scenario 2: SMN and both BLMs lot Need. Item should drop immediately, as none of the other five lots can change the outcome. Item goes to the highest Need lot.

Scenario 3: SMN and both BLMs either Pass or Greed. Item countdown continues until the other five either Greed or Pass, or the countdown expires. Item goes to the highest Greed lot, or falls to the floor if everyone Passed.

This is what the OP wants.

It's probably made so the client is determining if you can click need or not. So the server has no idea who can or can't need on it. It just handles the rolls and the distribution. Would make it easier on the server.

To elaborate, anywhere that you can trim communication on a server, you do. So if the server doesn't have to transmit to the client to grey out the need button, then it won't have that information. As far as the server knows, it waits for X amount of rolls to be completed then rewards the highest roll the item. So in this case they would trade some server bandwidth for a slight inconvenience on someone not rolling for an item. While I would agree that it is a miniscule amount of data to transmit from our point of view, imagine for all the loot rolls. That's a lot of rolls a minute (probably in the neighborhood of several thousand or hundred thousand a minute.) Tons of data that is saved.