Why bring MNK to anything anymore?

Monk is fine, no other class has as much utility while retaining such high single target dps. Sure drg will add more effective dps to your group but at the cost of no progression utility at all whatsoever. Sure nin will add trick attack but it doesn't increase your effective hp pool. It doesn't need buffs, it's not broken, stop complaining and trying to worm in unnecessary buffs when the groups are so balanced right now. Do I get beaten by our nin most times in t13 as a drg? Yup but not always. When you count disembowel and trick attack? We're pretty much exactly the same. Does he do comparable damage on monk? Yes. Would I take the ninja instead of the monk because the monk does 10-20 dps less on average? In a progression scenario no. It's finally balanced, don't break it.

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Originally Posted by Umbrax

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I totally agree with you, hopefully it will be fixed with the new skills in 3.0.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

That's not how balance works.

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Then how does it work ? SE wants monk #1 dps, but NIN and DRG can outperfom Monk because of fights mecanics. So there two solutions : either give Monk a skill to balance the loss, not as a buff but as a way to compensate the loss drg and nin don't have. Or change the fights design.

The problem is, Monk was top dps before, even during fights with a lot of dodging. Now it's not hard to realize that it has changed. Of course a great monk will outdps an average Nin, but a great nin will always outperfom a great monk on T13 for instance with equivalent gear.

There things that need to be highlighted, it's not about whinning or QQ, it's basically to point out a change which may have not been forseen by the team and kinda changes the jobs balance in some minors, but noticeable, ways.

Edit : sorry for my English, , it's not my native language, if you spot any mistakes, feel free to correct me :3

So it's simply some fights that aren't catered to monk is all ? Like how some fights favor Blm over Smn or Smn over Blm.

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Originally Posted by trailmix9999

I'm going to post something transparently stupid with my alt so nobody can pin this on me, tee hee hee

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I wish I thought of it first. :(

I think the point the OP is trying to make, is MNK = harder to play than the other melee dps.

Now I agree with most of the other posts in that while it may be slightly harder to play, it brings a lot to the table and has high rewards in terms of DPS if played correctly.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

Then how does it work ? SE wants monk #1 dps, but NIN and DRG can outperfom Monk because of fights mecanics. So there two solutions : either give Monk a skill to balance the loss, not as a buff but as a way to compensate the loss drg and nin don't have. Or change the fights design.

The problem is, Monk was top dps before, even during fights with a lot of dodging. Now it's not hard to realize that it has changed. Of course a great monk will outdps an average Nin, but a great nin will always outperfom a great monk on T13 for instance with equivalent gear.

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When did SE claim Monk is #1 dps? I missed that interview.

All I'm reading in this thread is that the salty monks want to be #1 no question, no challenge, 100% of the time. So I figure if you want your #1 undisputed dps you should lose your utility then? Unless you wanted to have top dps AND still have the best utility for progression? That's how balance works.

Monks have a staple place in progression raiding with their insane utility and they have competitive ST damage to boot. Even if monk dps wasn't great and was comparable to old drg dps their utility alone would guarantee them a spot in a raid. Even for non-"world/server first" groups.

Any dps that has to deal with several mechanics will lose a significant amount of dps. That's just how the game is built. GL is the monk mechanic, if you don't like it change mains?
Personally I feel that GL should be a few seconds longer, but the things being asked for by monks in this thread is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

When did SE claim Monk is #1 dps? I missed that interview.

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Yoshida interview in June 2014 by Joint Media
There is no official translation that I am aware of, but you can find a player translation here. Excerpt follows:

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So each job as has some unique element that makes it situationally useful?

That’s right. We have bards which can attack and buff, monks which can be the number 1 DPS while they maintain a combo, dragoons which are easy to use, black mages as pure casters, and summoners which mainly use DoT, each of them has a specific purpose and utility.

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

So I figure if you want your #1 undisputed dps you should lose your utility then?

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That would be perfectly fine to me. Even tho, DRGs still have Disembowel and NINs have Trick Attack + Goad, so it would be unfair. I don't know why people underrate NIN, I'm sure they didn't saw a good one with really low latency.

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

Monks have a staple place in progression raiding with their insane utility and they have competitive ST damage to boot.

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You are right.

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Originally Posted by siverstorm

Any dps that has to deal with several mechanics will lose a significant amount of dps. That's just how the game is built. GL is the monk mechanic, if you don't like it change mains?

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Losing GL3 several times because of a phase transition (so we can use PB only for one) it's just not ok. As I said MNK dmg it's not high enough to carry this kind of encounters (which are a lot).

What I dislike most is that some people still thinks a god MNK can win a god DRG/NIN in this kind of encounters, that's just not possible if they are at the same skill level.

I believe based on your previous comments you don't seem to agree with some of this stuff being said but I feel the need to still comment before someone else eats that up even more:

EDIT: TL;DR melees are balanced in the current meta and some monks just can't handle.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

monks which can be the number 1 DPS while they maintain a combo

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Brings me back to my point. That doesn't mean #1 undisputed king top dps 5evr. These fights are long enough that you can lose your stacks once and still keep up / still come back to top. The sustained damage of a monk over the course of 3+ minutes makes up for it, factor in these fights are extremely lengthy it's a silly complaint.

This was before ninja, before the new meta was introduced. The old raid party comps? People still preferred monk over drg, only difference is monk had 0 competition when it came to "who's overall top melee dps".

I would agree monks need a buff if they were being shunned from new raid groups like SMNs are in the current meta but that couldn't be farther from the case.

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Originally Posted by Umbrax

What I dislike most is that some people still thinks a god MNK can win a god DRG/NIN in this kind of encounters, that's just not possible if they are at the same skill level.

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To put it into context with an example, say a drg gets a ton of earthshakers in last phase of t13. If disembowel falls off for more than one or two of them not only is it a sizeable dps loss for the drg but also a dps loss for the bard. It adds up.

If a drg loses B4B uptime the hit to their dps is as bad as a monk losing GL.

I think Umbrax was talking about mandatory GL3 losses, not rng based ones ^^ and I think (I'm no dragoon expert) GL3 takes more time to build up than disembowel. And if a Dragoon uses B4B right before a phase transition in which he can't dps, well that's a mistacke.

Monk is really good as it is, but on the current content and with the current ilv, Ninja and possibly Dragoon will out dps it. This is the point of this thread and the only thing keeping monk in group raids now is DK and mantra which are useless if the group is already geared. On a progression approach it is usefull though.