working as a team in a party

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Originally Posted by DarkStaoneDragon

if you don't want to follow numbers, don't use DF

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The same can be said the other way around, if you don't want people who don't
want to count, don't use DF. It's a mixed bag, luck of the draw, roll of the die or however you wanna take it when queuing up for DF.
Make a Party with people you know you can count on. I just brave the storms in DF.

It's DF... You roll the dice and hope you get someone who has a similar playstyle and mind set. Don't get upset when they aren't what you are looking for. It's a party suggestion to ease getting 4 (or 8+) players together to attempt content. It doesn't always work out and there will be varying levels of competence with each player. /shrug

If you want more control over expectations, you'll need to expend effort getting a group together outside of DF.

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Originally Posted by Kazumac

It's DF... You roll the dice and hope you get someone who has a similar playstyle and mind set.....

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DF does not mean anything goes, much less trolls wiping the party or verbally abusing other players. It is still very much about teamwork and communicating. The non-communicative speed runner trying to force people to speed run and results in wiping the party, which make the speed runner a troll if they insist on doing it over and over. Not only is no longer any faster, but it is now deliberately harassing others to try to get their way, and no longer about playstyle and mindset.

Speedrunners need to get thru their thick heads that you can not push a string. You can always go slower but forcing it to go faster and wiping is NOT helping anyone and will actually make things even slower.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

DF does not mean anything goes, much less trolls wiping the party or verbally abusing other players. It is still very much about teamwork and communicating. The non-communicative speed runner trying to force people to speed run and results in wiping the party, which make the speed runner a troll if they insist on doing it over and over. Not only is no longer any faster, but it is now deliberately harassing others to try to get their way, and no longer about playstyle and mindset.

Speedrunners need to get thru their thick heads that you can not push a string. You can always go slower but forcing it to go faster and wiping is NOT helping anyone and will actually make things even slower.

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I did not say anything goes. Nor did I say players should put up with harrassment. My stance on harrassment is very clear in other threads and this thread is not about harrassment. (And it should not be)

My meaning is that you can't hold the people to arbitrary expectations. Expectations of speed running or slowing down your preferred pace are best left behind. If you don't like the other 3 players you are matched with leave it isn't worth your time. Of course this is my perspective, it helps me maintain sanity and reduce stress since I am not stressing over others living up to my expectations :)

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

I'm sure your macro works fine, but I just want to point out that it's not necessary. You can simply watch the tank. The one he attacks first will be red.

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I fully understand the first attack will be red depending on pull though instead of funneling threw a bunch of monsters, it one click and its targeted saving time to attack as one example if using a controller. The macro is for after that fact for the pull, depending on party set up of course, if in single kill ,I generally try to focus on what the tank is attacking not another target to ensure it goes down faster instead hey everyone pick and chose a target to take down that isn't proficient when everyone should be focus on one target to insure quicker kills hence why people would like monster marked this macro ensure that it still happens but without the (1) (2) (3) (4) over the monster heads.

Everytime I read one of these posts it reminds me of the days of learning how to tank. So...

1.) Tanks... there are tons of tanks out there that don't loose hate period! No marks necessary / No excuses necessary. Please remain open minded to the fact that you could be doing something differently.

2.) DPS... there are tons of tanks out there... (we said this already) but if your tank is not one of those you can and should smooth out the runs by following marks.

3.) Healers... if you're pulling hate from keeping everyone alive, I feel sorry for you. Your tank could do better and your DPS could do better. (See above.) If you find yourself needing to carry... you can heal tank, it's often easier than cleaning up the mess.

4.) All of you: Pointing fingers solves nothing... Advice is helpful provided it's friendly and constructive.

all of the above said: I don't loose hate period! (If I do I apologize, no excuses period). As a DPS I follow marks unless I'm a BLM (or SMN we all know some tanks can't keep hate off DoTs) in which case I stack with the tank and don't cry or blame when I get myself killed. As a healer I will often just heal tank to clean up scattering enemies. I do not give any advice unless it's asked for I simply play according to the cards I'm dealt. I always say good job at the end. I always give my commendations to the biggest derp because god knows he needs it most.

Follow the plan, play like a boss! You'll get along with everyone just fine!

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Speedrunners need to get thru their thick heads that you can not push a string. You can always go slower but forcing it to go faster and wiping is NOT helping anyone and will actually make things even slower.

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By the same token, why deliberately make it take longer than it has to? What if three people want to speed run and one does not? I feel that the odd man out should suck it up and go with the majority or leave. I've had healers basically hold the party hostage and say they won't heal a speed run even though the other three were all for it. I've had a dps say they hate speed runs and they'll afk if we do big pulls. I don't think I've ever once had a tank refuse to speed run (at least not if they were geared for it). Of course, that's what vote kick is for. I understand differing playstyles, but if you're throwing a tantrum and basically threatening to not even do the basics of your job unless you get things your way, I say don't let the door hit you in your self-righteous butt on your way out.

If party members aren't geared to do a speed run, that's a completely different beast altogether.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

By the same token, why deliberately make it take longer than it has to? What if three people want to speed run and one does not? ...
If party members aren't geared to do a speed run, that's a completely different beast altogether.

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Speed running requires all to be agreement. But the speedrun often happens even before any communications occurs so you don't even have time to get people into agreement. That is the problem with speed runner forcing things. And in their haste, they do no even check the party composition or gearing. If you do NOT have the AOE needed you can't run the full pulls, perhaps it is more efficient with two quick half pulls, but the speed runners will never consider or evaluate any of the options.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

By the same token, why deliberately make it take longer than it has to? What if three people want to speed run and one does not? I feel that the odd man out should suck it up and go with the majority or leave. I've had healers basically hold the party hostage and say they won't heal a speed run even though the other three were all for it. I've had a dps say they hate speed runs and they'll afk if we do big pulls. I don't think I've ever once had a tank refuse to speed run (at least not if they were geared for it). Of course, that's what vote kick is for. I understand differing playstyles, but if you're throwing a tantrum and basically threatening to not even do the basics of your job unless you get things your way, I say don't let the door hit you in your self-righteous butt on your way out.

If party members aren't geared to do a speed run, that's a completely different beast altogether.

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Love your spirit Ash but you should take care with Nyarukow :), even though your words were very wise.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Speed running requires all to be agreement. But the speedrun often happens even before any communications occurs so you don't even have time to get people into agreement. That is the problem with speed runner forcing things. And in their haste, they do no even check the party composition or gearing. If you do NOT have the AOE needed you can't run the full pulls, perhaps it is more efficient with two quick half pulls, but the speed runners will never consider or evaluate any of the options.

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People that want to run it slowly can attempt to force their play style just as easily as people that want to speed run. What you're talking about isn't particular to speed runners, but you're choosing to demonize them instead of the people at whose feet it should truly be laid. The habits you're talking about are particular to bad players. Only bad players don't check the party composition and people's gear before running off to gather 20 mobs. It doesn't take a genius to see that the white mage only has 3k hps and is probably a fresh 50, but bad players pay no attention to this. A soldiery bonus is a big tipoff, but again a bad player will ignore this, plow on ahead, and rage when they die.

You'd be surprised at what party compositions can do big pulls, though. I've done some pretty damn good speed runs with two melee DPS. Most speed runs don't have any more than 2-3 big pulls and there's a boss fight and possibly smaller trash pulls in between. That's plenty of time to get cooldowns back. Admittedly they do have to be pretty damn good melee, but sometimes you get lucky. Other times, you're in a premade. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

Love your spirit Ash but you should take care with Nyarukow :), even though your words were very wise.

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Haha. I'm very familiar with her posts. We've had it out over a few things already. xD