Is NIN better job than MNK?

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

Quit your crying about monk

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Is hard to argue with people like you, just because i state otherwise than you and some people i have to be crying.
I really hate that arrogance, i am not sure how many times i have to say it, I DON'T HAVE THE ISSUES IN PLAYING THE DUNGEONS WHERE THERE IS NO MECHANICS THAT SCREW YOU OVER, do you get it now? Some dungeons are just BAD for monks, no matter how you look at them, you will lose your stacks, won't be able to hit positionals NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD, but BECAUSE THE GAME DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO, while the NIN will preform mostly the same on anything, because his buff is static, and he doesn't have positionals.
Furthermore i doubt that i will ever change to another class, simply because i like the animations and i absolutely love the "feel" of monk rotation that is based on moving from one form to another.

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Originally Posted by Resine

Is hard to argue with people like you, just because i state otherwise than you and some people i have to be crying.
I really hate that arrogance, i am not sure how many times i have to say it, I DON'T HAVE THE ISSUES IN PLAYING THE DUNGEONS WHERE THERE IS NO MECHANICS THAT SCREW YOU OVER, do you get it now? Some dungeons are just BAD for monks, no matter how you look at them, you will lose your stacks, won't be able to hit positionals NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE BAD, but BECAUSE THE GAME DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO, while the NIN will preform mostly the same on anything, because his buff is static, and he doesn't have positionals.
Furthermore i doubt that i will ever change to another class, simply because i like the animations and i absolutely love the "feel" of monk rotation that is based on moving from one form to another.

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Demon Wall, Siren, Diablos, Kraken, and Migardsormr are like the only dungeon fights that would pose any issues from dungeons (and some of those are no longer an issue since you can just skip mechanics). Also none of those fights are even that bad for a monk. That's far from some game breaking experience because you couldn't get all of your positionals or you were forced to lose stacks. I tried being reasonable with you, but you just brush it all off and keep mentioning the same things. Things that many of us were trying to help you overcome. You don't want help, and you want to keep claiming that positionals are some kind of major imbalance placed on monks. The rest of us learned how to adjust, and progress forward. Do you really want to get left behind in a class that you say you like? Maybe it is you that's arrogant, and unwilling to think outside of your preconceived notion that monk is a broken job.

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

I've yet to see a MNK top my DPS in a viable instance.

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That could just be assosiated to the fact those MNKs were bad, in a Single target DPS Race, a MNK will pull ahead by a good bit. But this requires the MNK to be very good and be able to keep his Greased lightning up. MNK is harder to keep max DPS during "most" fights, that's why they have the highest Damage potential. Where as a NIN can just plow through and don't lose too much against Jump mechanics or periods of invincibility.

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Originally Posted by Nanaho

That could just be assosiated to the fact those MNKs were bad, in a Single target DPS Race, a MNK will pull ahead by a good bit. But this requires the MNK to be very good and be able to keep his Greased lightning up. MNK is harder to keep max DPS during "most" fights, that's why they have the highest Damage potential. Where as a NIN can just plow through and don't lose too much against Jump mechanics or periods of invincibility.

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It depends on the length of time invulnerability happens for. Mnks dps rises and then plateaus at max dps. Nins rises and falls with the use of trick attack usage like a sind wave. Drgs dps rises sharply and falls sharply around the use of their jumps like a sawtooth wave.

The longer the disconnect, the more it affects all the jobs equally. I find it may favor mnk more if the have PB at certain intervals or if the disconnect allows drg to line up all their jumps (or just two) and B4B/IR.

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Originally Posted by Resine

When i play the Monk i want to hit every positional without losing stacks, for example the new dungeon that came out, Keeper of the Lake, the fight against the dragons. Well, you have to run from aoe all the time, there are tons of them, i really would love to see how you hit all those positionals having his rear blocked by aoes, or while hiding under that shield when you face the front of the boss. I played it just few times so i don't know the exact timing, but i think that the link between the main and sub dragon where you have to wait takes 8-9 seconds? That's an example of the mechanics that screw the monk over, not to mention that when the Boss targets a random member from the party he turns instantly at him.

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You don't have to get into the shell immediately and once the charge finishes you can jump out. Same idea as KB's Meteor. In general, though, getting hit with an AoE is not the end of the world. You got Second Wind, Keen Flurry, Bloodbath, Featherfoot and an abundance of bored/hypochondriac healers. Take a hit and use your best judgment.

As for the tether, I'm 85% sure you can still advance forms on Midgardsormr during his invulnerability. It works for WAR combo.

Mobs follow a script. Prepare for the inevitable turn or use ToD to delay the GCD until you can get in position.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

Do you really want to get left behind in a class that you say you like? Maybe it is you that's arrogant, and unwilling to think outside of your preconceived notion that monk is a broken job.

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This^ is what i am talking about. I never felt like being behind, i never felt that i suck so badly that i should change the class, i never said that Monk is a broken job, i am not crying over it, or whatever you are thinking. You mentioned 5 dungeons that are the worst for the Monk, or pretty much they break the whole mechanic of positionals because you are not able to execute them. That's what i am trying to say all day, that there are SOME dungeons where the Monks will be able to do only about 60-80% of their normal damage, while the NIN doesn't have those problems. Not to mention about the WHOLE solo content. In the normal circumstances hitting the positionals is pretty easy, basically after a while you don't even think about it you just go with muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Resine

This^ is what i am talking about. I never felt like being behind, i never felt that i suck so badly that i should change the class, i never said that Monk is a broken job, i am not crying over it, or whatever you are thinking. You mentioned 5 dungeons that are the worst for the Monk, or pretty much they break the whole mechanic of positionals because you are not able to execute them. That's what i am trying to say all day, that there are SOME dungeons where the Monks will be able to do only about 60-80% of their normal damage, while the NIN doesn't have those problems. Not to mention about the WHOLE solo content. In the normal circumstances hitting the positionals is pretty easy, basically after a while you don't even think about it you just go with muscle memory.

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I mentioned 5 fights. Not the entire dungeon. That's 5 dungeon bosses out of 52, and again the mechanics of those bosses aren't even that bad that it would wreck your DPS. You're the one that keeps going on and on about the positionals.

Now lets take a look at a key post from you:

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Originally Posted by Resine

Damn it, i wish someone would tell me that sooner before i did my MNK all to lvl 50 and invested all my poe/sol/cash into him... Why did i have to pick up the class, that is getting rolled over by every mechanic in this game... Like cone aoe behind the boss, say goodbye to your potency, some mechanics, say good bay to your stacks, while NIN and Lancer can laugh at my face... I hope that they will do something regard this matter, it's kinda weird that MNK is the only one that has to bear all that awful stuff.

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Looks an awful lot like whining and claiming mechanics break the class. Maybe you should phrase your comments better. From the outside looking in it shows all the signs of someone not familiar with the class. I started out trying to be helpful to you, but you don't want to accept any help. All we've seen so far is that you want to just stick to your opinion of it regardless of how many others tell you the class is fine just how it is.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

People say Monk is the hardest job...then a bunch of people say it isn't...I've mained since launch, and while the rotation does become easy muscle memory eventually (easier than drg/nin imo), the real tests lie in knowing the fight and how to maintain stacks and such. Is the enemy going to become untargetable soon? Will I lose a chance to refresh GL if I use Touch of Death before that jump, delaying my form combo? Is it worth eating an aoe or staying longer than is safe if I can retain stacks in exchange? And little nuances like using Demolish's long animation to give you a slightly later GL refresh.

Of course this varies wildly from fight to fight on how difficult this is, and there are some real stinkers (namely the last turns of each coil in particular; 5,9 and 13). But that's something we learn to deal with in practice. As has been said above there is no "best" of the 2 jobs, and both have different kind of learning curves. Just gotta find the one that you're more comfortable with, which sounds like it would likely be NIN.

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This. /thread.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/f/54...ffc0_50x50.jpg

I'm just going to add my two cents to this discussion.

As a Healer I more often have to watch NINs more than I have to watch MNKs. Mainly because MNKs are use to moving so much more often for positionals that they react to AoEs more often. (I assume) I also find that the majority of the time they are doing relatively the same amount of DPS.

If you have a problem with positionals, don't use a MNK. Its that simple. But there are seriously no bosses that cause a MNKs DPS to fall so far that they are doing so much less than other melee classes that there is anything to complain about. 60%-80% reduced damage sounds more like bad gameplay then the dungeon making positionals for MNKs impossible. Hell at least one of the bosses listed by Ricdeau can't be backstabbed by a NIN. I have NEVER felt that my team was better off with a NIN then a MNK, or vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Nanaho

That could just be assosiated to the fact those MNKs were bad, in a Single target DPS Race, a MNK will pull ahead by a good bit.

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I was on full i120 and a couple i130 augmented where-as he was on majority i120 and a couple i130 Dread gear and i130 Magitek MNK weps so I'm assuming he is some-what skilled and this is throughtout World of Darkness on all bosses, I don't think it could get much fairer than that really, and we were mostly neck and neck sometimes around +/-20 difference to eachother but apart from that not much in it.