Make relics the best weapons 100% time

My point is "The relic weapons have always been billed has a number 1 weapon choose for non-raiders." Without the relice weapon quest updates/upgrades, how would any non raiders clear anything in the game? You still need to meet item level, you cant do that with level 49 weapons. My skill or others skill level has nothing to do with this. I think raiders just can't deal with non-raiders having ANYTHING of value. Let's be real here,your'e not going to beat very much in this game now with lower tier items. So, forget about Shiva Ex (DPS check) Odin (DPS check). "Owner of 2 Zodiac weapons and then light farming of another." Players who choice to do the relic quests upgrade earn their way, stop trying to devalue their time and efforts. There's a place of both relics and Coil weapons in this game.

I have finished Zodiac weapon in one week, I wasn't even able to finish turn 10 in one week. Are you telling me that Zodiac weapon should be exactly on par with turn 13 weapon which actually requires you to do turn 13 a couple of times to have even chance to get it? Where is logic in that?
Getting relic is much much easier... well, getting relic isn't a matter of difficulty.. just time. I really don't think that relic being number 2 or 3 weapon is that a big deal. Relic is still viable and will always be viable as the quest continues. I always raided with my relic and I never had problems. Better weapon isn't crucial..

I just think that this is another cry of the part of community who want to have everything. If you never craft, you won't get access to some items (untradable only for crafters), if you don't raid you won't get access to some items.. that is how it goes.

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Originally Posted by CYoung187

That is your definition.

The problem for me is not raid weapons being better, it is the tomestone weapons being better. Those require next to nothing and if they add it to WoD, there will be another easy way to eclipse the zodiac with much less effort. Sure there may be another upgrade to zodiac, but anyone who is even one step behind will now be beat by someone getting a drop in a casual raid. With all the grind it is very easy to fall a step behind.

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Next to nothing?! You serious?? You have to beat T11 to get one of those, there is currently no other way to get them. IF you got one it is now easier to upgrade to 130 through hunts, that is correct, but still no T11 kill = no tome and by the time they get easier to obtain, relic will be bumped to be the best weapon in the game.

Next time people will ask for dreadwrym items to be obtainable other ways so they can have BiS without stepping into coil. :o

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

For once that someone is making an useful thread with a very smart idea, you guys should cheer him up a bit.
It kill me inside to see people complaining without solid arguments by just tossing the regular stereotypes like "lol-nope, would never work", "too hard for new players!", "raiders=greedy and casuals=lazy".

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They already did it so it is on par on ilvl, better (in most cases) with secondaries. New coil with ilvl 135 weapon, present relic ilvl 115 raid progress weapons 120 and upgraded 130. Month later quest added to make relic 125 which are better (unless you put pointless materia in eg parry on DRGs, SKS on caster relics) it is better than most of the upgraded 130 weapons due to seondaries.

Then with 2.51 and new relic quest the relic will match FCoB weapon in ilvl and supersede it in secondaries.

Most "hardcore" raiders replaced the SCoB HA weapon with the 115 relic because it was better when 2.4 and FCoB was released.

People want things just handed to them, don't they?

The relic takes no skill to get. Sorry to burst your bubble, but having the zodiac says nothing about what kind of player you are...except you have a lot of time to play.

And that's all you need for the relic; time. I have my Ragnarok, and it is great for helping me progress through fcob, but all I did to get it was grins the same easy things over and over. Anyone can get their relic, not anyone can get the Dreadwyrm

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

My point is "The relic weaposn have always been billed has a number 1 weapon choose for non-raiders. Without the relice weapon quest updates/upgrades, how would any non raider clear anything in the game? You still need to meet item level, you cant do that with level 49 weapons. My skill or others skill level has nothing to do with this. I think raiders just can't deal with non-raiders having ANYTHING of value. Let's be real here,your'e not going to beat very much in this game now with lower tier items. So, forget about Shiva Ex (DPS check) Odin (DPS check). "Owner of 2 Zodiac weapons and then light farming of another." Players who choice to the relice quest upgrade earn their way, stop trying to devalue their time and efforts.

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You devalue the step ladder this game gives you besides a relic and coil weapon. You are provided countless options and they can all be used consistently to progress through the content.

Shiva EX, Odin DPS checks?

You can beat Shiva EX in 110 weapons. Obtained from combination of Hunts and Syrcus Tower (rather easily). Using your new Shiva EX weapon, you can down Odins DPS check, which assuming you are not outright terrible, you truly just need to DPS decently and go full throttle on buffs when hes charging Zantetsuken. It's all step ladder. Don't wanna go that route? Meld out those weapons that are constantly added.

Also contrary to what you claim, it is skill that determines what you can do in this game, considering all content has been downed in LESS geared scenarios then what the content actually is aimed at ilvl wise. (EX: T5 in ilvl 55, T9 in ilvl 90, T13 in ilvl110.)

Shiva could be downed in i95 if people knew how to play correctly and unless you're not playing the game at all, you will be over that simply from soldiery or poetics. Let's not ignore they gave you weapons via token system like the first 3 primal set i90 weapons. Gear just remedies the lack of skill by giving you direct power. Ilvl is also a superficial barrier that guards Duty Finder. You're freely able to switch gear mid instance or even obtain ilvl minimums by switching in gear from other classes right side for higher ilvl.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

End game raids require you to be SKILLED. Without the skill to understand, adapt and overcome obsticals and mechanics, you get no reward. The reward for being skilled is the loot that is dropped, and is most times, best or better than most.

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This is not necessarily so given that runs can be bought. While it would cause the people carrying the one person through to be skilled, it would not necessarily cause the person be carried to be so. And yet, this player still has the rewards for doing something that you describe as skill based.

You can already clear the current end-game with the relics as they are. Why do you need for them to be 'the best'?

The only players who could make full use of 'the best' weapons are the ones who are already clearing said end game content anyways.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

It kill me inside to see people complaining without solid arguments by just tossing the regular stereotypes like "lol-nope, would never work", "too hard for new players!", "raiders=greedy and casuals=lazy".

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Not once prior to your nonsensical ramblings did any of those "regular stereotypes" surface, furthermore the majority of the posts were well written and had valid points for both sides of the argument.

As a side note to the thread in general I agree that relics should be the best weapons in the game, however I don't think they should be tied behind raids. Relics should have their own content with difficulty on par with the current raid content but something more along the lines of a group of trials at the end of the grind. For example farm the lights then have to beat Hydra Extreme.