Server Bosses, Large scale PVE, Multiple Shell Fights and Dragons!

Been to the gamescom myself yesterday and have been keeping an eye on GW2 for quite a while now as well. After playing it myself I have to say it simply is the game to try if FFXIV can't keep up. While I am really attached to FF and prefer XIV's more realistic and not as colourful graphics GW2 just has so much more to offer as you can see in the video. I still hope for XIV to succeed though and still think it might be an awesome game in like two years from now on. But yeah, GW2 with no monthly fees should be on every MMO fans' watchlist.

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Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee

Cost of implementation doesn't mean lode or stress on the engine or servers.

Cost of implementation means: Dev time comsumed: Concept > art> assets > coding > testing > balance > patching > payoff.

At this point of time there are many things that need to be fixed at the core of the game. So to implement fluff like Large PvE battles the cost of implementation is too high compared to say the fixing of battle regimen, or refurbishing crafting.

Systems that are in place are 1) easier to rework and 2) cost less 3) may need to get fixed first in order to add new, better and more exciting content.

So does spending 6 months making large scale PvE available in FFXIV make since if : Battle isn't working, if battle regimen doesn't work right, if the party mechanics don't work correctly?

NO!

Fix what needs to be fixed first, then look into creating new content, because it won;t be enjoyable with current systems/mechanics.

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Completely disagree with this work flow model, and I think its where the current team has gotten it completely wrong. They really should've focused their efforts on creating new and engaging content like the encounters shown in this video while implementing some of the glaring omissions of core features instead of trying to revamp game systems that were arguably the best and most functional things about FFXIV.

What you consider "fluff" is what most people consider actual content. What you consider essential won't make a difference to people who complain there is nothing to do in FFXIV because all they will have is the same lack of content with slightly different game systems.

We've heard now for months that the new team felt XIV had to be fundamentally reworked from the ground up before they could implement new content, but that's clearly not true. They dropped the R45 raid on us with largely the same class and combat system in-place and now people get to fully appreciate the flexibility and complexity of the Armoury System. Even if they had not made the "major" changes to combat with auto-attack and AoE/spell costs, the R45 Raid would've still been the most enjoyable content XIV offered by far. Now imagine if they spent all that time reworking combat and instead used it to create 3-4 dungeons similar to Dzemael?

Instead, we're going to have to wait for a trickle flow of new content as they continue to simultaneously break/tweak existing game systems that arguably, worked fine to begin with. Next on the chopping block, crafting. Even though the current crafting system wasn't for everyone, I think most everyone would agree there were bigger problems with XIV that needed to be addressed.

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Originally Posted by grausekopf

Been to the gamescom myself yesterday and have been keeping an eye on GW2 for quite a while now as well. After playing it myself I have to say it simply is the game to try if FFXIV can't keep up. While I am really attached to FF and prefer XIV's more realistic and not as colourful graphics GW2 just has so much more to offer as you can see in the video. I still hope for XIV to succeed though and still think it might be an awesome game in like two years from now on. But yeah, GW2 with no monthly fees should be on every MMO fans' watchlist.

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Nice, any indication from the devs/reps/info at Gamescon of when its going be released? They are probably wary of releasing too soon as to avoid "fXIV'ing it up".

i'd agree with chez, heck i'll go as far as saying i liked the very first battle system more then any of them including the one we have now, it needed fixing but instead they scraped it and went another way. it was by far my favorite, it was like campaign battle system but for grinding.

they for sure are fixing alot of things i didn't consider broken, they are dumbing down the game, not fixing it. maybe lot of things are being changed for the future gameplay they see fit for the game, but can't be all of it, like the crafting><

either way, weither i run off and play gw2 and tera, i play lots of hours so it won't hurt my gameplay on ffxiv lol, but then again like i said earlier just small 8man endgame isn't endgame to me, anything with small dungeons has pvp. and that is the endgame. a pve game needs to be bigger and badder on the pve side, it needs major party play pve, and like no other mmo it needs story based missions with party play. i have not been playing other pve games since ffxi because of this, i was like no cutsceens? no mission party plays? ..in a pve game? rpg? mmo? no thanks.... so ffxiv will be no different.

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Originally Posted by Chiz

Nice, any indication from the devs/reps/info at Gamescon of when its going be released? They are probably wary of releasing too soon as to avoid "fXIV'ing it up".

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Of course not hehe. But GW2 is making very good process and what they showed and what you were able to play was massive already. I wouldn't be surprised if they announce a release date early next year. But then again, yeah, if they wanna take more time they are welcome to do so. :)

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Man.. GW2 looks so freakin amazing...

I have my doubts that we'll ever see content like this in XIV unfortunately. I suspect we might never see dynamic scaling, which would be at the very core of content like this. Prove me wrong SE.

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From the last Producer's Letter:

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Introduction of enemy group variability (link system) We will make it so that enemies will call for reinforcements based on player strength.

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This sounds to me like dynamic scaling, at least in some form or other.

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Originally Posted by Chiz

Completely disagree with this work flow model, and I think its where the current team has gotten it completely wrong. They really should've focused their efforts on creating new and engaging content like the encounters shown in this video while implementing some of the glaring omissions of core features instead of trying to revamp game systems that were arguably the best and most functional things about FFXIV.

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THe work flow model is probably most definately wrong. I was merely trying to point out that, It's very time consuming to create new content. After all Time = Money.
The Polls showed that over all people were very unhappy with the state of the battle system. Argue all you want, but that facts are there. The Devs recognise this and preceeded with the change. When the devs say they are looking into cost analysis they mean time and money, not what Victor alluded to:

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Originally Posted by Victor

The devs themselves have already stated the game can't handle large scale activity on numerous occassions ... I think of how they're always referring to "cost of implementation" towards so many basic things XIV does not have. Large scale battles like that would be exponentially more costly and apparently they can't afford whatever resources are necessary to add things like a search function.

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It's not that FFXIV can't handle large sized monsters or large scale combat. At this moment the time and money to bring these things to the game, isn't the right time.

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Originally Posted by Chiz

What you consider "fluff" is what most people consider actual content. What you consider essential won't make a difference to people who complain there is nothing to do in FFXIV because all they will have is the same lack of content with slightly different game systems.

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Remeber that post by the devs where they said it takes 6 months to create a set of armour? It took them 7 months to bring out these dungeons. There is a recent post from Yoshi saying releasing the dungeons before all the battle adjustments were finished was a risky move. But i'm sure they feel the lack of cont just as we do.

I'm not saying I don't want epic battles like this, but right now there are core mechanics that still need to be addresed. That will form a foundatin for improved gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Chiz

We've heard now for months that the new team felt XIV had to be fundamentally reworked from the ground up before they could implement new content, but that's clearly not true. They dropped the R45 raid on us with largely the same class and combat system in-place and now people get to fully appreciate the flexibility and complexity of the Armoury System. Even if they had not made the "major" changes to combat with auto-attack and AoE/spell costs, the R45 Raid would've still been the most enjoyable content XIV offered by far.Now imagine if they spent all that time reworking combat and instead used it to create 3-4 dungeons similar to Dzemael? Instead, we're going to have to wait for a trickle flow of new content as they continue to simultaneously break/tweak existing game systems that arguably, worked fine to begin with. Next on the chopping block, crafting. Even though the current crafting system wasn't for everyone, I think most everyone would agree there were bigger problems with XIV that needed to be addressed.

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The Devs are split into teams, You have the Chocobo team, The Dungeon team, The battle Team, the Crafting team. It's not 1 dept that shifts focus once one thing is done. As each team Completes a project the move onto the next. When the time is right those completed projects will be patched in. But Some completed projects might depend on other projects being done too. Like Battle Reforms. For all we know the Ifrit battle might be done. But is waiting on the Battle team to finish thier project.

Once many of these changes are in place, you can expect to see ramped implementation of content into the game.
What we are seeing now in the next few months is the fruit of the devs labor from that last 6 or so months.
The point is, They have to build a foundation. They had to rebuild the house of FFXIV from the ground up. W/O a solid foundation the bigger you build the less stable it becomes.
Disagree with me all you want. But the truth is the Devs will devote time and money where it is needed first to build the things the players want. Not the other way around.

I think the current team of XIV has a severe lack of ambition.

They have fixed some of the basic features but all their new plans seem to aim for mediocrity.

We get airships but there's not even talk of using them in large scale air battles against the massive dragons you see in the intro. Why not? Mh3 does it on the Wii of all things with a far less flexible battle system.

Chocobos are introduced just as mounts instead of battling running massive enemies on land at high speeds. Why? Automatic follow commands existed in XI 10 years ago and AA would make this possible.

Previous team had plans for large scale battles and hamlet defences but even though they had a short timeframe plan to implement them they've been all but forgotten.

Final Fantasy series has tons of epic set pieces that are memorable I would like to see the new team aim a bit higher to achieve something like that in XIV also.

I'm not saying they should copy XI, Aion nor Rift but to create something new and unseen that could interest old players to return.

BTW that video you posted would be completely impossible to do with XIV graphics. For that kind of gameplay to work you need to be able to see other players and monsters from a long distance. This is something XIV's engine just cannot do.

omg doc u are totally right, i mean ffxiv and gw2 are the games that i will play but if they add that sort of things to ffxiv if they are smart it would rock, i will always choose ff game over any other, but they really have a lot of potential for this game, and yes regarding the other jobs exellent idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In order for large scale, dynamic PvE to work in FFXIV, the new open claim system needs to be implemented first, the same claim system people are fighting tooth and nail against.