A Lesson in Tactfulness

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

Honestly I'd have more respect for someone to just be truthful and put it all out there if they absolutely had to be rude. Passive-agressive tactics just strike me as dishonest on top of being catty, never mind tact.

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Tact is honesty + politeness. Rudeness leads to defensiveness. Yeah, it's not the most direct way of conversation, but I wouldn't call tact passive-aggressive, dishonest, or catty. Those are their own things. If anything, tact is more... diplomatic. It's being honest, but using the proper phrasing to soften the blow while still getting the point across.

I mean, many interactions between members on this forum are a pretty clear example of how an absence of tact isn't very effective at stopping toxicity.

I'm really eagerly awaiting(that's sarcasm for those who don't always understand it) our first /suicide to bullying. then people will pipe the heck down and respect others.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Tact is honesty + politeness. Rudeness leads to defensiveness. Yeah, it's not the most direct way of conversation, but I wouldn't call tact passive-aggressive, dishonest, or catty. Those are their own things. If anything, tact is more... diplomatic. It's being honest, but using the proper phrasing to soften the blow while still getting the point across.

I mean, many interactions between members on this forum are a pretty clear example of how an absence of tact isn't very effective at stopping toxicity.

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I understand what you're saying and I agree completely with you. What I was replying to though was the "if you absolutely have to be rude and catty", which to me says "passive-agressive thinly veiled insult" not "diplomacy". I would say that tact is more an attempt at giving constructive criticism while making a conscious effort not to come across as hurtful, rude, or catty.

Of course I could have read his comment wrong, but that's what I took from his wording.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

"I'm not your friend, buddy."

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I'm not your buddy, pal.

The thing is, this guide is mainly for people you meet in the open. Yes, it can be used online, but some factors do change, such as a joking sarcasm or facial expressions. Some people might even get offended using this tact, as they may see it as what you really thought, even if it weren't true.

Add in that a lot of people just want to be free of how they have to present themselves IRL. Everyone wears a mask.

Embrace the GIFT.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

I understand what you're saying and I agree completely with you. What I was replying to though was the "if you absolutely have to be rude and catty", which to me says "passive-agressive thinly veiled insult" not "diplomacy". I would say that tact is more an attempt at giving constructive criticism while making a conscious effort not to come across as hurtful, rude, or catty.

Of course I could have read his comment wrong, but that's what I took from his wording.

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Ah, I can see how you may have read it that way! My apologies for butting in!

tact = form of hypocrisy....
Tact = form of lie

Tact = sending someone to hell giving him /her the impression to go to heaven.

Question : why on Earth should I try to place myself in the other person shoe before I say something ? why on Earth should I do that ? in saying someone needs to be tactfull you are saying that THEIR feeling are more important then mines. I am not responsible on how other people understand what I say, that is purely on them, if they decide to take it as being a hurtful mean,well no matter how I will say it it will be taken as hurtful..so best say it point blank at least it is clear and straight to the point..no misunderstandings or unspoken truth which make everything more difficult.

By having tact or in other words, being politically correct, you are just telling to people what they want to hear...rather then what you want them to hear. Kind of dumb.

Up to them if they are annoyed or not...why shoudl I care of that frankly ? why ?

Mei

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Yay! Nationalism and possible racism!

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TIL: Western is a race

Slightly more seriously: Japanese players are a great deal more circumspect, which can pass for tactful in a bad light. When I was studying Japanese, our teacher asked us how that Japanese say "No" we answered "Iye" and she told us that was wrong. Japanese people say "Maybe" or "Yes", but extend the sound as if the sentence were to continue when they mean "No" to avoid the confrontation and disappointment outright refusal creates.

eg.

EN: "That was a great party, I think we almost made it to twisters by the 40th attempt! Let's party again next time we're both on, OK?!"
JP: "Maybe, sure...."

or

EN: "Yoshi-P, when will we have more housing wards/plots"
Y: "We are looking into doing this, please look forward to it..."

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

snip

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I bet you're a blast at parties.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

TIL: Western is a race

Slightly more seriously: Japanese players are a great deal more circumspect, which can pass for tactful in a bad light.

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Did I say possible? Sorry, definite.

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When I was studying Japanese,

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I think I found the root of the issue. This isn't something you gleaned from actually interacting with people, its something you picked up in language class. I'll say it again, tact isn't cultural/national/racial. It's something you learn with interacting with others.

To your language point, every group has it's own linguistic bits that allow them to signal each other (My favorite is the southern idiom "Bless his heart") without appearing to be rude.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Did I say possible? Sorry, definite.

I think I found the root of the issue. This isn't something you gleaned from actually interacting with people, its something you picked up in language class. I'll say it again, tact isn't cultural/national/racial. It's something you learn with interacting with others.

To your language point, every group has it's own linguistic bits that allow them to signal each other (My favorite is the southern idiom "Bless his heart") without appearing to be rude.

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It's actually something a 50-something year old Japanese woman who is paid to teach Japanese language and culture taught me. I assume she knows what she is talking about. Bless his heart isn't really a Southern thing, it's common in the UK too. It can be affectionate or patronising depending on how it's used. Often both.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

in saying someone needs to be tactfull you are saying that THEIR feeling are more important then mines.

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Probable troll, but still worth saying:

Tact is not saying that the other person's feelings are more important than yours. Tact is saying that the other person's feelings are important.

You are correct that dancing around the issue can lead to misunderstandings and difficulty, but unrelenting bluntness leads to a preponderance of negativity, which can impact people in a lot of bad ways (poor work performance, hopelessness, even suicidal tendencies).

It is important to be blunt only when doing so is useful and necessary. Do you think the happy couple's baby is ugly? What good does it do to tell the couple that? Does it help them to solve any problem? Does it improve their, or your life in any way? In this case, use tact; say the baby is charming, even if it's not really true - and while it may not be true to you, it probably IS true to the couple.

A friend has performed their own repairs on their car. While they are proud of their work, you can tell that the vehicle is a deathtrap. Do you congratulate them on a job well done? That would likely be a bad idea. You need to let them know that they are in danger. Of course, even there, there's a difference between saying, "You're a crappy mechanic, and if you drive this you will die." and "I don't think this vehicle looks safe; you really ought to have a professional take a look at it." Even when being blunt, it's best to choose a method that will spare the listener's feelings.

Interacting with people causes social friction. Tact is the grease that soothes that friction. That said, when the social machine is broken, bluntness may be the tool needed to fix the problem.

Using tact all the time, or being blunt all the time - both of these are lazy solutions that do more harm than good. A wise person will examine each situation, and apply the correct tool as needed.