Take off those rose-tinted glasses just for a second, you call it a catch-up device, even though there's exclusive GC gear that can only be obtained through hunts? I wouldn't call ilvl70 gear a "catch-up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomnium
If you're talking about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJNAI_8aVCI then yeaa wooo look how FUN that is, so exciting... [/sarcasm]
Ever thought that it's a zerg-fest because oh, I don't know... ARR has gone way above and beyond what 1.0 did in-terms of subs hence a crap-ton more players?
Perhaps if ARR was as slow and sluggish as 1.0 then you might enjoy them more, *sigh*.
Bring back 1.0 Notorious Monsters please.
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12-07-2014, 10:22 PMSkyl1n3
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12-07-2014, 10:45 PMVelthice
People swarm hunts to gear up and you think somehow putting unique/rare items attached to another set of monsters isn't going to make them even more likely to be a zerg fest? Really?
Just face it guys, NMs are never going to be in the game in the way you envision it. -
12-07-2014, 10:53 PMBlaiseArath1.0 Failed because of a combination of things, including the devs ignoring almost all player feedback during Beta, as well as a ton of other issues, including yes the slugghish and slow combat. It wasn't just because of NMs, but A lot of closed minded people like to point out that 1.0 failed so all ideas in 1.0 must have attributed to it. It didn't, and the argument isn't any more valid now than it was when it was first ill spoken and since parroted. Its a "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" argument, A (NMs) Happened in 1.0, and 1.0 failed, therefore NMs caused 1.0 to fail. It could also be a composition/Division fallacy, seeing as you may be implying that because 1 thing about 1.0 failed, that all things in 1.0 contributed to its failure. While it does not mean you are wrong, I'm simply arguing that I do not believe 1.0's NMs are the reason the game failed, it was more a combination of all the failures that sunk the ship. but not everything in 1.0 was a failure or a bad idea, there was just more bad ones than good and he game sunk... and of the few good ideas 1.0 had, NMs were one of them. This is but of course, my opinion on the matter, as fun and enjoyment are not absolutes but subjective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
I also understand that Hunts are quite similar to NMs, and its hard to explain the difference to someone who doesn't want to listen. You post a video of a 1.0 fight and then sarcastically mention its fun, do you somehow believe that bringing back NMs is going to bring back 1.0s fighting mechanics...? I'm not sure what argument you're going for here but it feels a lot like a strawman. No one (here) Is asking for 1.0's combat. Next, do you not understand the objectiveness of "fun"? Most of these people playing XIV do find XIV fun, its why they make suggestions in hopes to add more fun for them. I don't believe many if any of them are asking for NMs to be the new end-all endgame content. Most of them aren't trying to ruin your fun, just add things that'll be fun to them too, without interfering with endgame.
As far as the catch up thing, you're choosing to ignore that the I.lv90 gear was added for such cheap points that you could essentially get them in within a day? It was a clear and nicely done catch up, I'm not saying it was bad... the other gear is clearly there for vanity reasons, as its significantly more expensive to buy. Also, his statement had nothing to do with nostalgia so I'm not sure what rose tinted glasses has to do with it.
The only reason hunts are still a zerg fest is because they still offer a steady reward that makes them (mostly) worth killing. NMs would theoretically only have 1-2 drops and would be pointless to camp after you get those drops. They would probably a zerg at first but that would quickly not become so. Its the nature of all new content however.Quote:
People swarm hunts to gear up and you think somehow putting unique/rare items attached to another set of monsters isn't going to make them even more likely to be a zerg fest? Really?
Just face it guys, NMs are never going to be in the game in the way you envision it.
If each Hunt only gave you seals the first time you killed it, they'd be significantly less of a zerg, do you catch my drift? -
12-07-2014, 11:04 PMVelthiceIf it's a a low drop chance than absolutely people are going to zerg it. If it's a guaranteed drop then people are going to zerg it at first, everyone is going to have all the new stuff inside of a month, and then the content is going to sit there wasted and unused. The NMs will live out the rest of their days peacefully because there will be absolutely no reason to kill them anymore, and at that point, why even bother implementing it in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaiseArath
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12-07-2014, 11:10 PMBlaiseArathThank you, I understand what you're saying and your concerns here, they are valid concerns. I will try to address them best I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velthice
First, low drop rates. I think people are asking for something reasonable (between 25 and 100%, based on the drop I imagine). So I don't think we're going into FFXI level of "gdi" drop rates just yet. However I would trust our 2.0 staff to make something reasonable and balanced if they decided to add them, so our numbers should not be considered set in stone.
On the second subject. the only reason the other 10 dungeons that aren't Snowlcoak, Satasha HM, and Qarn HM aren't "Wasted and unused" is because of High level roulette. Theres already wasted and unused content thats simply creatively shoved down our throat. Almost all storyline missions dungeons are, again, wasted content if not for the roulette that throws us in there. the "Hard" primals with no drops, the normal primals with no drops, etc. Old, wasted content long past its purpose... even most of the extreme primals drop outdated crap, yet people do them to this day, for lights or for clear. Even most FATEs go uncompleted, if not for Atma or for new players leveling up or old players leveling new jobs.
What I'm getting at is, while understandable, your argument doesn't take into consideration new players coming into the game or people deciding to level new jobs, thus camping/killing those NMs, or even SE adding a new job starting a craze back up. They would last as long or longer than any dungeon or primal added into the game, and would probably take about as much time to introduce. All content will eventually be outdated and useless as new stuff is introduced. I personally forgot Level 80 Crystal tower gear existed because no one I play with actively chooses to queue for that outside of vanity reasons, its not a roulette either... but people still do it on the few times I've delved in for Fuma gear, which goes to show there will always be some use for stuff like that. Like I imagine there would be for NMs.
Also, NMs being a zerg fest I guess I don't really dislike the idea of, I would be content with just keeping hunts and adding drops to them(and no, another token point system is not the same). Would give people who are asking for NMs almost exactly what they want. But then it would preclude a chance for lower level NMs, and make it simply endgame content. -
12-07-2014, 11:12 PMAtomniumYou are right good sir, I totally forgot to add something in my sentance :Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
Fixed!Quote:
No, Hunt = Catch-up update device delivering free handed stuffs to static-less people, iced with insults on /sh chat, radar users, huge zerg-fest and glamour stuffs provider :p
On a side note, I'm not asking for a "slow and sluggish" game but having more openworld stuffs to do would be a good thing for the health of FFXIV.
Also, linking an 1.0 video just to make the thing looking wrong and bad is a low move from your side :rolleyes: 1.0 is no more and it is obvious that a fight like shown in your link couldn't work with ARR battle mechanics. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
Note : No offenses and don't take it as a personal attack :p but we all know that they will add carbontwine and carboncoat in January for 2.5, they even raised the allied seal cap to 4000 to "prepare" the field ^.^ and so, the "Catch-up update device" will once more rise for the static-less players. -
12-07-2014, 11:32 PMFelisAt least show a much more interesting NM videoQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyHBHNmSyQY
I don't have anything against NM. Only don't expect it to be something else than another zerg content if they would be free NMs like the ones in Hunt.
Private NMs reserved to the party is the way to go. May it be with a treasure map, leve, or something else that worked like behest or chocobo caravan during 1.x (free to join open world content with a max. participants cap, where you just speak to a NPC to join) -
12-07-2014, 11:42 PMBlaiseArath
Could also make them force pop NMs, like how i described in another thread (the Open world dungeon one). Making them more akin to a leve mob, allowing them to be claimed by one single group, but poppable like a leve.
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12-07-2014, 11:47 PMLemuriaYou realise that most hunt mobs spawn randomly around the zone, and can literally end up anywhere, right? Or do you always pick out the few small exceptions which just happen to fit the point you're making?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
Every allied seal gives the same rewards as every other allied seal. There's no reason to go after a particular hunt mob, because every single one is identical in terms of drops. That's really the whole point of NMs, so congratulations on missing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
Nobody really liked them to begin with. People grind them because it's good XP, but in terms of immersion, there's nothing to them. Now if they were dynamic events which had consequences for success or failure, maybe they'd be a bit more interesting than they are currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
The only problem I see with adding NMs is it needs to be handled with care. Firstly, I'm all for hunts being battles which can only be fought as a party, and no outside assistance can be gained, similar to how Levequests work. They can be random in their appearance, to keep things interesting, but require the consumption of a 'bounty order' or similar to fight them which are given at a rate of 1 per day. That way no one group could easily monopolize an NM, and we keep the combat interesting rather than it being a free for all brawl like most hunt mobs.
The one thing I would dearly love to see though are some truly unique items. Not just unique to look at, I mean items with specific bonuses. For example, gear which specifically enhances a particular skill or ability for a job (eg, boosts Sword Oath to 70 potency instead of 50), to make them items worth coveting instead of forgetting.
Gear is so vanilla in this game that the taste is getting bland and stale. We need some new stats to spice things up, and NM's would be a great introduction on the back of such an update. -
12-08-2014, 12:49 AMArkineWhy are you so against the idea that there were some good parts about 1.0 that should be brought back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
I see you neglected to read the OP, since I mentioned that Hunt mobs "other than S ranks" appear with no rhyme or reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
That's... boring. It's just boring, and hunt mobs just pop anywhere at random and they're a hassle to find, and all that /sh drama. It's terrible all around. We only did hunts to get sands and oils. Now people do them for Solidery points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
Review 1st page to find out why NMs are better than Hunts.
And they just suck in general, the concept is like the one in GW2 but done worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3
Hunts should never be all, hunts are terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyl1n3