Extend Classes into full Jobs?

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Originally Posted by Craiger

Making Classes viable is just an annoying balancing issue, and frankly, the worst idea ever... Everyone wants unique jobs, so why would you want people to play bland classes with abilities from all different classes?

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Here is the part that many don't seem to get. If they do extend Classes into full Jobs, what makes you think they won't add abilities to the Classes-now-Jobs and make it unique?

You will be surprised how much a difference Job specific abilities can make to rotations and general play style.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The problem with the Class system is they are simply low level versions of the Job System.
Lancer- is a low level Dragon
Pugilist- is a low level Monk
Rouge- is a low level Ninja
Archer- is a low level Bard
Thaumaturge- is a low level Black Mage
Arcanist- is low level Scholar that has three different colored carbuncle's that occasionally likes to dress up as a Summoner
Conjurer- is a low level White Mage
Marauder- is a low level Warrior
Gladiator- is a low level Paladin
SE can replace every class with Jobs. Give the Summoner it's own specialized Job apart from the Arcanist and add a Ranger and Bard.

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Personally I feel Class/Job system is kind of messy.

Even Yoshi-P isn't fond of it.

Not sure how it's suppose to work. ACN is the only class with multiple Jobs. The up and coming DK doesn't even have a base class.

??? O_o

A clean up of some sort should be done. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Here is the part that many don't seem to get. If they do extend Classes into full Jobs, what makes you think they won't add abilities to the Classes-now-Jobs and make it unique?

You will be surprised how much a difference Job specific abilities can make to rotations and general play style.

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The classes are the jobs...

Every skill and trait a class gets feeds into the role they will play as a job. Their job skills are simply specialized to further the class. 5 skills is not enough to redefine a class though. SCH only squeaks by because SE could redo the pets as well.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

Oh!!! It's now about "iconic look" and "'Final Fantasy' feel"!

And all this time I thought you only cared about "function", "redundancy" and " inefficient allocation of developer time". /rolleyes

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I don't know why you think both can't co-exist. Have the feel and look while simultaneously having a functional class, reducing the need to waste time, and resist introducing redundancy.

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Originally Posted by Bishop81

My point is, so what if there is redundancy?

How is that harmful to the game? I have asked this many times, but no one has given me a satisfactory answer.

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Sorry for butting in here but it's been stated multiple times by Yoshida and the dev team that if it doesn't play sufficiently differently they're not adding it, there is literally no point in having two jobs play the same. A lot of jobs fill the same role but PLD doesn't play like WAR, DRG not like MNK, SMN not like BLM, WHM not like SCH, etc, they all perform the same basic function but play sufficiently different to justify being a separate entity.

The problem SE has is the Jobs aren't that much specialized from the Class. Most MMORPGS allow players to specialize their classes take WoW every class has 3-4 different specializations while this game only has one. SE should either add 3-4 Job trees for each class or have Jobs with no Base Class.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The problem SE has is the Jobs aren't that much specialized from the Class. Most MMORPGS allow players to specialize their classes take WoW every class has 3-4 different specializations while this game only has one. SE should either add 3-4 Job trees for each class or have Jobs with no Base Class.

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And I think this is the problem here. WoW talent trees polarize the different specs eevn within the same role. Such as the three mages (Frost/arcane/fire) are all dps, but play radically different with different mechanics. Same with warriors (arms/fury) or Rogue (Assassination/Sublety/Combat) for dps or priest (Disc/Holy) for healing.

I think they can make it work, but they really need to come up with something that will change up how they can play or perform their role. This either requires the differentiation beginning as early as level 15-20, or have an incredibly polarizing job ability at level 30 (such as defiance or that ranger-turret example I gave eariler).

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The problem SE has is the Jobs aren't that much specialized from the Class. Most MMORPGS allow players to specialize their classes take WoW every class has 3-4 different specializations while this game only has one. SE should either add 3-4 Job trees for each class or have Jobs with no Base Class.

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FFXIV has much greater causal leanings, then other MMOs and emphasizes equal representation among choices. Branching out might help varity, but it also creates alot 'filler' that rarely sees serious play. Unlike many other games were a player must start a new character to play a different role, in FFXIV they do not. Infact SE actively encourages players to try different classes due to the cross-class skill options.

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Originally Posted by dday3six

FFXIV has much greater causal leanings, then other MMOs and emphasizes equal representation among choices. Branching out might help varity, but it also creates alot 'filler' that rarely sees serious play. Unlike many other games were a player must start a new character to play a different role, in FFXIV they do not. Infact SE actively encourages players to try different classes due to the cross-class skill options.

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In WoW every class specialization is viable because they function in a role and play radically different from each other with different mechanics. Players don't build their own class they just choose a tree to specialize in so it makes it easier to put in hybrid and support classes. In order to keep the class system SE has to either add polarity between the Classes or Jobs by further specializing the Job system and Classes or scrap the Class system and simply have Jobs.

It is sad that SE was so worried that FFXIV:ARR wouldn't do so well....they tried to go out of their way to accommodate players that were already there. Therefore they didn't wipe everyone's character because they feared making people upset, which led to them keeping the same system for class/job.It also caused all those server issues when ARR launched since they did not plan on being a huge success.

It is no secret that the job/class system is extremely limiting, i just don't see classes playing that differently than they do now regardless of what jobs they introduce in the future.

If they add another job to whm...will it not be healer? If they add another job to maruader will it not just be the same basic abilities being used over and over again that MAR/warrior uses? Same with lancer, rogue, and basically any other class. Yeah jobs add some new stuff in but you end using the same combos and abilities from the base class more often than not.

That is why they chose to not add a base class to dark knight because they did not know how to add the class/job in without having to feel obligated expand upon it in the future by adding more jobs to it when it is probably in such a niche role to begin with.