A plea for 3.0 and beyond: Job Customization

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Originally Posted by fireslash

more separation, and less mixing

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Yes and no. More Individualization and specialization and less / no mixing.

DNC/thf, DNC/sam, SAM/thf, PLD/rdm, PLD/nin...

I enjoyed these things back in XI...BACK IN XI. I do not wish to see this now. If that is the case, just make a masterclass/job, name it Bob and watch the fireworks.

Aside from all the balances issues and stuff already mentioned, this system was technically already in place for 1.0 and for the most part people hated it. Classes had no unique identity, besides a few unique skills for each class, everyone was required to have the same cross class abilities equipped or you simply wouldn't be invited to groups.

Pugilists functioned more or less exactly the same as lancers which functioned much the same as Marauders, all while distinguishable only by their weapons and few unique abilities. The player polls (Player Poll) conducted pretty much highlighted that one of the top things players wanted was more class uniqueness and a more stringent stat system that allocated points based on your class and not allocated however you felt like it.

As for the other hugely demanded customisation systems people want, you just have to look at both WoW and FFXI's merit systems to see how badly they worked and why customisation is nothing but an illusion. Horizontal progression will suffer from the same thing unless they use a system like FFXI gear swapping (which I personally never want see ever again). People will always work out the best options to pick and if you don't pick those same options, well goodluck getting into anything that requires a party.

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Originally Posted by Jaykos

Wow's glyph system would work to customize classes to a degree.

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Only the original idea. The concept behind that system was to let us customize our spells, but they ended up being "just take them because they're a flat DPS boost" in most cases.

Eh when they were introduced yeah I agree. Now I feel they're very personal choice/playstyle decisions.

Plus the minor gylphs are for fun/vanity which is a cool aspect.

All they really need to do is take off the stupid restrictions on the Classes. In that regard 1.0 was so much better.

If you slap on a Soul Stone, you have access to some pretty impressive abilities that define your role. If you take it off, you should be able to mold whatever kind of job you want and let people experiment with Thaumaturge tanks (yes, we had those) and Pugilist healers and Gladiator "Red Mages." It was an idea that was so unappreciated they gave us this static garbage where everyone (who cried for role identity, mind you) is exactly the same as the next guy playing their job - only difference: vanity items. It's really sad. Even still, I'm not saying go back to 1.0 but they should have left the base classes alone so that you could mold your "sword user" to be whatever kind of sword user you wanted him to be.

Then you'd see some really flipping creative stuff going on.

The thing is mmo players go on and on about wanting customization but at the end of the day, we dont, we just want the best build.. so what would end up happening is that certain "builds" will became constant and any1 running anything other than those will be looked down about cuse "he doesnt play the class like his suppose to".

Not to mention the balancing nightmare.

My opinion: Get rid of the class/job system, leaving only the job which they can then make feel even more unique (ie make bard more supportish) and expand cross-class skill available to more than 2 other jobs

As was just said, if you are given the opportunity to "customise" then all possible combinations get tested and compared and you only end up with one answer the most efficient/strongest build that everyone from then on must adhere to in a party scenario. So all that would change is instead of Party finder saying "clear only, ilv105 restriction" it will now be "clear only ilv105 must have xx skill equipped" You may have customisation but whats the point when all it does is get you kicked from parties by not following the most effective build.

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Originally Posted by Sholah

We had this in 1.0. Yoshi took it away because of his precious WoW holy trinity system. He wants things to be as simple as possible for new players, and that means no customization.

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I really wish we could get it back myself.

I support this, and I hope SE will look into this option. There's only one way to play your class that is the "right" way, especially with healers this is noticable. You're either a good player, or you're bad (and you need to be crutched by another healer because you can't carry your own weight). There's no way of saying "Ok, this playstyle doesn't work for me so I'm going to do it a little differently". Nope, you better switch classes because you're weighing everyone down.

I love customization, I like options. But it just doesn't work that way in MMO's. The best way to run it is just to lay out the Job, step by step, level by level, and say "This is what you get, go play". Yes, everyone playing that job is the same and the only difference is vanity. But as has been pointed out, this is what happens EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS.

I don't like the class system any more than the OP, and I really hope it gets changed. I don't expect to see a major overhaul until at least halfway through 3.0, and most likely not until 4.0. But opening up the system and allowing us to take any skill from any class won't fix the issue. I do like where your head's at, though. Keep thinking about ways to make it better. Things don't change if you don't show a need for change!